Up through the mid-1950s, racist attitudes were widespread and universally accepted in white American society to a degree that seems completely incredible today. Especially the belief that African-Americans – OK, “Negroes,” let’s not be anachronistic – are innately, genetically stupid and childlike compared to Caucasians. Then we went through a Civil Rights revolution, and since then anti-black racism has been a viewpoint that Dare Not Speak Its Name. Nothing is more certain to torpedo a politician’s career than accusations of racism. (Look what happened to Senator Majority Leader Trent Lott last year when he got nostalgic about his old friend Strom Thurmond’s 1948 bid for the presidency – as a Dixiecrat.) Only a view despised fringe organizations – the various Klan groups, Christian Identity churches, American Nazis, and some (not all) of the militia groups – will openly defend racism any more.
But that doesn’t mean racism is gone – it’s just gone underground. So far that it’s hard to tell, really, how much is left. It is possible, after all, to oppose affirmative action on the grounds that it is unjust or counterproductive, without actually feeling any animosity or contempt for the people affirmative action is intended to benefit; so when someone speaks out against it – we really can’t be sure whether they’re motivated by old-style racism or not. Same with immigration: Since we liberalized the immigration laws in 1965 ('66?), abolishing the old “quota” system which was expressly designed in the 1920s to maintain America’s character as a white man’s country, the U.S. has been flooded with non-white immigrants from the Caribbean, Latin America, Africa, India, and Southeast Asia – which is something we’ve never before seen on this scale in American history. Racists have obvious reasons to hate all this. On the other hand, there are some very good non-racist reasons to try to block or slow down immigration: Immigrants, especially low-skill immigrants, just provide rich people with cheap nannies and farm owners with cheap field laborers, while depressing wages for our native-born working class. So when somebody like Pat Buchanan speaks out on the dangers of immigration, I don’t know whether to classify him as a racist or not. (OK, in Pat’s case it’s an easy call, but in many other cases it’s much harder.)
What do you think? How many white Americans still believe, secretly or openly, that non-whites are inferior, or dangerous, or somehow objectionable, and on genetic rather than cultural grounds?
I wonder if the problem isn’t so much that there’s a secret underground current of racism that no one dares discuss, but that many feel, so much as a new generation of internalized feelings about other races that are racist in fact, if not intention.
I’m thinking, among other things, of December’s thread on the soft bigotry of low expectations, and the arguable charge that affirmative action infantilizes those it would help.
In other words, the problem may be that we’ve gone from “no nigger’s gonna marry my sister” to “we need to help them because they can’t help themselves.” From contemptuous to patronizing may be an improvement, since there’s fewer lynchings in general, but it’s still racist.
David Wellman in Portraits of White Racism argues that racism is simply a “system of advantage based on race”.
Dr. Beverly Tatum and Dr. William Cross (both experts on Identity and race) basically agree that racism: is the system of policies and practices as well as personal prejudices by individuals (Tatum, “Why Are All the Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria”?.
So even though you and I don’t believe that any other group is inferior (we have no prejudices), we still benefit in our society due to our racial stature.
Knowing is half the battle…
I don’t see alot of racism anymore. People too scared to get sued. I see and hear alot of assine or ignorant remarks, but nothing that is purely racism. What I do see is alot of Reverse Racism. Not entirely sure if I have just been noticing it more or its really on the rise. Just too many people getting away with “Down with Whitey” attitude. You see in popular culture and that is not right. Its not fair.
Racism has not disappeared. It’s taboo to call someone a “nigger”, but racist feelings still linger and it sometimes creeps into behavior. Sure.
A few months ago, a coworker and I were talking about another coworker’s complaint that she lived in a dump. We both thought she was exaggerating the “dumpiness” of her neighborhood. My coworker said, without a hint of sarcasm, “She lives in a predominately white neighborhood. How bad can it be?” Her comment was clearly racist, but of course if you had told her that she would have been offended. It becomes rude, therefore, to highlight the racism of others because “of course they didn’t mean it that way”.
What I have found is that when people are exposed to blatant cases of racism, their minds will often overheat trying to come up with explanations and justifications that excuse the accused. Want to see cognitive dissonance in action? Expose your typical American to any of the below:
For some reason, people believe the irrationality of racism means that it’s rare in this day and age of Enlightment. That, just because blacks can now bring lawsuits against racist whites, that this means that racist whites do not exist anymore. Also, people like to believe that as long as they can point their finger at racist blacks, that means the racism of whites can be excused. All of these are ways people cope with a reality that they may not understand or be privy to.
When a white person says they don’t think racism is a problem, I wonder just how would they know? But often times, a black person like myself does not really “know” either. I have been exposed to overt racism only a few times in my young life. As far as I know, I have not been discriminated against. I’ve received ugly stares and I’ve been rudely ignored, but I can’t say these were responses to my race and not something else.
My parents, on the other hand, don’t have the luxury of being so sheltered. They know a time when there was no second guessing…when racism was clear and frightening. My parents are only in their late fifties, though. If they have first-hand experience with racial victimization, certainly others–still living and breathing–have first-hand experience as racial oppressors. It would be foolish to pretend that these people all changed their evil ways on April 4, 1968 But so many of us believe this. It makes us feel better to believe this. Unless, that is, you know the ugly truth.
I think that modern day white initiated racism is generally nothing more than discomfort whites feel when around different ethnic groups, mainly blacks. I dont know any whites who seriously believe blacks are genetically inferior, and i’ve talked too/seen thousands both in person and on the internet (people are alot more free with their opinions on the net, so factor that in too). I have met several who think black culture is inferior though, they may look at stereotypical black culture and all the negatives associated with it (lower education, illigitimacy, misogyny, higher crime, etc) and denounce black people for it, you can call that racism if you want but i don’t consider that to be racism per se as that is just dislike of a specific culture, not the people in that culture. I guess it depends on how you define the word. Im sure i’ll get called racist about 40 times for saying that though, which leads me to the next part.
I think some whites (not me though, i dont care) are angry about what they percieve to be ‘reverse racism’ and may feign racism and being racist (around other whites of course), but again these people don’t seriously believe that blacks are inferior from what i have seen. They are just letting out frustration.
So in closing, white condemnation for black culture is not uncommon, and white discomfort around blacks is quite common. But beliefs about the inherit superiority of the white race is non-existant from what i’ve seen. The condemnation of black culture (which is usually labeled racism) is more about things like crime and education and not about race. Blacks just happen to be in the race that is being condemned. Then again i could be wrong.
Can’t say much about racism against other groups (asians, mexicans, etc). From what ive seen some whites consider mexicans lower class. But as far as anti-asian racism i haven’t seen/heard any.
I agree with the others that say racism as a term for “blacks are genetically inferior” lies mostly with extremists.
There’s another type of racism that I’ve perceived. White people tend to cut a great deal of slack to other white people. Unconsciously, I think. An example from my own life: I used to live in Washington DC. Rode the subway to work. One evening a bunch of black kids got on my train. They were wearing private school clothes; that is, prepschool ties, blue blazers, white shirts and gray pants. They were about 12-13 years old. They sat down and proceeded to make jokes at one another. Typical stuff. Gay jokes. Fart jokes. The usual stuff that makes young teenagers so delightful to be around. My thought process: Those kids are out of control. They need to learn how to behave in a public setting.
Several weeks later, on the subway home, a group of white kids get on my train. They are dressed in t-shirts and jeans. They proceed to make fun of another passenger on the train in hushed voices. This is in addition to the gay jokes and the fart jokes. This reminded me of when I was the same age and did the exact same thing with a friend on a bus. It was a fond remembrance for me, and I couldn’t help but smile at the kids. They were just like me.
A little while later I remembered the black kids. If I was fair, I should have treated both groups the same. Either both as “out of control” or both as a fond remembrance. The black kids appeared to be of a higher social station too. My gut reaction was to think the black kids were lesser or inferior.
I’ve since seen countless examples of white people doing the same thing with black people. A good student who commits a crime is just misguided if he’s white, and he’s a predator and con artist if he’s black.
Wesley, I think you inadvertantly got it right the first time.
Probably because so many of our laws and political actions were based on perceived race, the normal human xenophobia manifests itself, in the U.S., primarily as racism. I still know a lot of people who consider blacks to be inferior. (After all, [in their view] if blacks were not inferior, they would have already overcome all the bad things that happened between 1663 and 1964.)
Note, however, that I have not limited my perception that racism is rampant to only white on black racism. I know several blacks who are absolutely convinced that every white is “out to get them” and that no white is capable of honest behavior. In the area of Southeast Michigan where I grew up, an influx of Mexican farm workers who moved into the cities for a chance at UAW wages has led to quite a few of my white acquaintances disparaging that group. I have met relatively few of the Mexican-Americans of Pontiac and Capac, but I have heard one or two express contempt for both whites and blacks. I have also had a number of classmates, relatives, and acquaintances who lived near Indian reservations (Michigan UP and Montana) who expressed racist views toward their neighbors and you need only go back to review some of the sillier posts by Phaedrus to see Indian on white racism in action.
Racism os not our only form of xenophobia. There is plenty of class warfare and regional feuding in the U.S. Those forms, however, are not quite as prevalent of all-encompassing and there do tend to be more ways to avoid harm from other forms of prejudice than from racism.
We need to fight the racism of Louis Farrakhan as ardently as the racism of William L. Pierce. However, as long as whites are in a better position to use racism to harm others, then white-on-name-your-group racism is a bigger problem for the country.
I don’t see the difference between hating a group of people because they’re genetically inferior and hating them because their culture is inferior. The effects are the same. “I don’t want to hire them because they are stupid. I don’t want to sit next to them because they may rape and rob me. I don’t want to let them into my neighborhood because they are irresponsible.” You said yourself that you know there’s a lot of discomfort of whites around blacks. As long as there is discomfort, there’s a problem. Calling it something besides racism does not make it less than a problem.
I would argue that you’re wrong about blacks “just happening” to be in the culture being condemned. Fifty years ago, when blacks were second-class citizens in the US, bigots complained about “black culture”. During slavery, “black culture” was the object of mockery in minstrel shows. There has never been a time in this country when black culture was NOT denigrated and distorted and packaged into handy little stereotypes. You have to wonder just what all that denigration does to a culture and to a people. And how much of that denigration is based on fact? Does it matter if the people hating a culture have skewed perceptions? Or is the hate excusable as long as it’s not about inherent characteristics?
When you say “just happen”, one is tempted to believe that you’re talking about something that happened by chance, by innocuous stochastic processes, rather than by design. Whites who demean and denounce “black culture” aren’t being brave in their astute un-PCness. They are simply doing what their fathers and grandfathers and great-grandfathers did before them. They are following the racist tradition of this country.
How can you be so sure that whites are only “feigning” racism? And if being racist is so taboo and awful, why would they feel that “feigning” racism would be appropriate behavior? Wouldn’t they be afraid of the PC mob that constantly calls whites racist and metes out “reversed discrimination”? All this feigned racism would surely get someone in trouble in this Enlighted Age of Reason, right?
If I knew my coworkers “feigned” racism when I walk out of the room, it wouldn’t give me much comfort to know that they didn’t seriously think my genes are inferior, just my culture. The hatred engenders the exact same feelings.
I see a major difference. If white people, statiscally, had a higher than average crime rate (for example) then non-whites condeming that wouldn’t be racist in my view. If whites had a lower crime rate there would be no condemnation, but the people who weren’t being condemned this time around would still be white. The impression im getting is ‘do not condemn black people for anything, if you do you’re racist’, which is not realistic or plausible. If blacks, or whites, or the poor, or any other group has undesirable characteristics as a whole people will probably condemn it.
I agree that under your definition of racism, many whites are racist.
A good deal of white people i know are not really that PC about race. there is a minority of very vocal anti-racism people but a good majority are lassie faire and cynical about the label ‘racist’ because they’ve see the word thrown around and abused for years on end.
Calling discomfort ‘racism’ creates a major problem as the label racist makes someone a social pariah, preventing anyone from addressing it. Making people into social pariahs for feeling the way they feel will not make life easier for blacks.
You’re such a God-damned idot I can’t believe you don’t feel embarassed every time you open your mouth. Yes, that’s an ad hominem attack; if you can’t see your own blatantly obvious fallacies, then you’re beyond debate. Do yourself a favor and heed the “tis better to be thought a fool” maxim by staying out of racial debates altogether. Oh, and burn in Hell.
Condemning what? Crime? Or white crime? Why does it matter who’s committing the crime, if one is supposedly not racist.
White males are more likely to commit crimes than black women. Should I condemn white males, as if they hold a monopoly on crime? Should I condemn them all, as if all white males are criminal? Or should I condemn criminal individuals no matter what they look like, and leave the racial labels alone?
What undesirable characteristics do all members of a group possess? If only a minority of individuals in a population possess an undesirable trait, does it still mean that’s its okay to condemn the whole group? Why does it become okay to condemn a whole group just because the “bad element” is disproportionately represented in that population?
White people have it easy in this regard. They are never “disproportionate” anything. Rather, they set the norm. If 13% of the white population is incarcerated, then higher incarceration rates in minority populations are automatically “deviant”. If 13% of the white population is criminal and 20% of the black population is criminal, you’re telling me–Wesley Clark–that it becomes okay to be frustrated and bothered about black people because of this? Even though 80% of them are good, law-abiding citizens?
This is wrong and no different than believing that black people are genetically inferior.
No. Discomfort is what happens when someone farts in the room. Looking at me and assuming I’m stupid, lazy, and criminal is racist. Telling “black jokes” at the water cooler is not feigning racism; it’s real racism. Discrimination against “Tyrones” and “Keishas” is not based on discomfort or frustration. It’s based on racism.
Calling “racism” discomfort creates a major problem because the label “discomfort” grants someone the permission to be hateful and ugly. After all, it’s those people’s fault we we feel this way. So we needn’t do anything about the way we feel about them.
I wondered how long until i got one of these replies. 2 down, 38 to go.
This is partly why a rising percentage of white people aren’t afraid to be called racist (if they aren’t public officials at least) and dont take the label ‘racist’ that seriously. Is this what we have to shoot for, being called a racist and idiot everytime we open our mouths and disagree with people we don’t agree with? not everyone wants to live that way.
Show me why im wrong please. i am sure i have fallacies, show them to me.
Good point. I have never heard anyone talk about the fact that men commit way more crimes than women the ratio is almot 50:1 or condemn men for it. I have no good response to that.
No group has ‘everyone’ doing something. Im just speaking from statistics. As you said for example, men are around 30x more likely (last time i checked statistics it was around there) to commit violent crimes than women. I am stating some white people look at black culture with its higher illigitimacy and crime rates and don’t approve of it, and they are labeled racist for bringing it up. I dont consider that racist per se, just a dislike of illigitimacy and crime. Ive seen people like that condemn illigitimacy and crime in whites, non-whites, americans and non-americans. If these things were lower i dont think there would be condemnation about them.
I dont agree with that as i have a different definition of racism. I don’t think that any rational black person would fail to succeed in life because once in a great while someone says something at a water cooler in whispers. That is a mild annoyance, not a giant effort to hold a whole group of people back. Ive dug myself into a nice little latrine here. This should be interesting.
Farrakhan may be a bigot, but I don’t see where he’s in a position to deny white people housing, access to loans, job promotions, or any of the putrid fruits of racism. In this debate, I see your mention of Farrakhan and other so-called black on white racism(again, nothing more than bigotry) as a red herring. Perhaps your way of not dealing with the real issues being discussed here or tempering what you know to be true but having a hard time reconciling. Whatever! I don’t know what’s going on in your brain other than you having a problem discerning the difference between racism and bigotry. Yes, the two often go hand in hand but they’re not the same.
monstro, has provided some excellent links with some good information for anyone that is serious about looking into this issue. It’s obvious to me that Wesley Clark didn’t read any of it, moreover I think he was wooshed by the whole thing because he continues to try to make a point about some cultural inferiority. You would think this person thought the world began in the last twenty years. Wesley Clarke, take a moment and study the history of this country from 1776 to the current day, because it seems to me that you don’t know anything about racism or the experience of black people in this country.
I love this little gem right here:
Yes folks, this is the 13th Ammendment of the Constitiution. Notice how they couldn’t just let slavery go altogether. Nope, they had to leave a loophole so that there would still be a way to get some free labor from black folks.
If it were only a dislike of illegitimacy and crime, then there would be no point to bringing race into the discussion. Children born to unmarried women and criminal acts are found throughout all segments of American society. If a person discusses a group based on arbitrary selection of statistics applied to perceptions of race, why should we deny that their statements are racial? If they draw unwarranted conclusions from their statistics and apply them to the group as a whole, that would seem to indicate a racist act unless one can demonstrate a compelling reason why it is not racist.
As an example, the New England Journal of Medicine had an issue on this very topic. One research paper was published that showed the “black” men were not helped by an anti-heart attack medicine as “white” men. The authors drew trhew conclusion that there was a racial component to the efficacy of the drug. A later researcher took their raw numbers, re-analyzed them, and demonstrated that the participants in the study were drawn from different social starta and if one examined the data ignoring race and using income and lifestyle, one got a better rate of predicition for drug efficacy. It simply happened that the majority of the subjects who were black were already older and sicker than the subjects who were white and the first researcher jumped to a racial conclusion. Was that racism? It was probably not deliberate racism but institutional racism. When you get lots of white people looking at raw numbers for crime and births out of wedlock and they do no further analysis than to put labels on the black community, then I would say that that is racism. Is it the same sort of KKK driven racism that calls for moral condemnation? No. However, to the extent that people are making ill-informed judgements of other people based on perceived race, it is racism.