I’ve asked this before, years ago, but the thread got few replies and pretty much no answer. I was recently reminded of it, so I figured I’d give it another shot.
Japanese, Chinese, and Korean all write their names with family name first, “Christian” name last. We in the West (or at least in America) generally keep this order with Chinese and Korean names (Chang Kai-Shek, Kim Jong-Il. But most English sources I’ve seen do NOT do so for Japanese names (Tetsuya Nomura – which in his home country would be Nomura Tetsuya).
Wow, over 250 views, and not a single reply? This question may be tougher than I thought!
Bumping to wonder aloud if the generalities I mention in my OP really are what’s done “in the real world” (although I’ve never seen anything to contradict it).
Well, all the Asians I’ve known or heard of in America have been known by personal name first, family name last. The famous Asian names we know that don’t follow this convention, AFAIK, are people who have never lived here. I’ve never noticed any difference in the treatment of Japanese names versus Chinese or Korean.
When writing in a Western language, such as English the Japanese write their names in the same order as is done in the West/
My guess is that it came about in Japan when this country enthusiastically opened itself up in the Meiji period, (from 1868) when the Japanese tossed off the old feudal system and modernized itself in a short time.
People went from carrying swords and wearing top knots in their hair to weaponless and western dress in a very short period, as well as a complete change in government and a industrial revolution. A lot of Western ideas got copied at that time, and I would guess that the order of names got copied as well.
Well all right then Mr Pedant, you can’t say “middle name” either. You can however say “given names”. It’s not that difficult and is still better than “Christian name”. Again, this is what is done in Hong Kong.
E.g.
LEE Ka Shing
But would work too for
John Fitzgerald KENNEDY
Or
John SMITH
(Hungarians and French, off the top of my head, also often write their names with the family name first.)
Could it be how the names are used? I know in China, all of the names usually come together. Even good friends will often use the full set of names in everyday conversation. For example, you’d probably say “Hey, Hu Jintao, can you pass the noodles” rather than “Hey, Jintao…” So in a sense, the names come as a unit, and it’s kind of strange to break up that unit.
How is it in Japanese? With longer names, I imagine that going by either your first or last name alone happens a bit more often.
Yes, exactly. But this is a feature, not a bug. A person has one (or more) given names and one family name. If you need to distinguish among given names, then you can be more precise, but it’s usually not necessary, so there’s no standard way of doing it.
You could say “primary given name” and “secondary given names” - acknowledging that in some cultures, it’s the given name closest to the family name that is considered most important, rather than the one that comes first sequentially.
The name I have to write in a contract so it’s valid under Spanish law is between 6 and 8 words long (there are two words which the Spanish government has decided are not required any more)… but nobody calls me that except telemarketers and the occasional corporate-email-creating-person. I like jobs where I’m asked “personal name,” “family name(s)” and “preferred name” or something like that: I can spell out the whole legally-required sausage, while still getting to be called something a lot shorter.
Would it? I know several Chinese people who, when asked “what do you prefer to be called?” (something which is very common in Spain), give the same name that’s written in their documents. They’re pretty short.
I’ve known others who, upon moving abroad, chose “western names” for themselves (I’ve got a Western name and I change the spelling depending on where I am, to avoid causing foreigners to choke on their mispronunciations of it), but this was a substitution: Mei Li became “Flora”, not “Flora Mei” or “Flora Li”. The Made in China movies I’ve seen have people using full names constantly.
It seems to me as if you’re making the assumption that Chinese will address each other respectfully by “Mr. Familyname”: with names as short as they usually have, and with some family names being extremely common, having “Mr. Fullname” as the polite form of address makes perfect sense.
Generally, people are addressed by just one of their two names in Japanese. For a more formal relationship, usually with the family name, plus “-san”. For a more friendly relationship, usually the given name, plus a more informal honorific such as “-chan” or “-kun” (depending on gender and age). For a very close relationship, given name without the honorific. So, with a female high-school student called Suzumiya Haruhi, her teachers would address her at “Suzumiya-san”, fellow students might call her “Haruhi-chan”, and a very close friend (or boyfriend) might call her just “Haruhi”.
If you wanted to refer to someone in a familiar way, you’d be likely to use a friendly nickname. You might say “Hey, Chubster, pass me the noodles.” But on the whole, it is a much more formal culture and you wouldn’t run around calling mid-level acquaintances (co-workers, not-too-close friends, etc.) by their first name on its own.
Your system may be easier, but it still doesn’t cover a lot of major cultures’ naming schemes. In particular, many of them don’t have a concept of “family name” in the English sense. In Icelandic, for example, the second name may be a patronymic which will vary with the gender of the family member. Russian also uses patronymics, but they are considered neither given names nor surnames. There are some cultures in India which don’t use any sort of surname at all; only given names are bestowed.