Why do we Idolize Che Guevera?

[MrFantsyPants]

According to some sources, he also enjoyed torturing dissidents.

[Aro]

I’m not too sure if the ‘torture’ of dissidents was something he was particularly involved or revelled in - but Guevara certainly had no compunction in sentencing and executing (murdering) under-performers or cowards within his guerrilla groups and others who failed to embrace the revolution as passionately as he had. And whilst his lack of remorse in this respect (towards the extinguishing of life) is well recorded, I haven’t seen much to suggest he carried out the torture of suspects as it would be commonly understood. Perhaps a type of psychological torture certainly, where everyone was held up against his iron will and commitment, and anything less than full dedication was ridiculed and condemned.

I’d be interested in seeing examples of situations where he is accused of torture of dissidents if you have any links. (I’m not questioning it as it is certainly plausible, but it does seem somewhat outside of character - unless of course you count systematic murder as torture). Thanks.

[Padeye]

TheLadyLion and I saw a booth selling Che T-shirts and poster at the Arizona state fair last night. I ovserved that likely none of the people buying those shirts had a clue who Che was or what he did. We concluded it was a fashion statement that probably isn’t given more thought than to wearing a shirt bering the likeness of that other fine human, eminem.

[Padeye]

Damn, hit reply too quickly

I spent a month in German in the Victoria Park hotel in Langen, just south of Frankfurt. The lounge/cigar bar had a decidedly post revolutionary Cuban motif. The place was practically a shrine to Fidel and Che with more than a dozen portraits of them on the walls. I got into several enlightening discussions with my German and British colleagues about US attitudes toward Cuba and communism.

[even_sven]

I’d like to point out that it isn’t only American youth that idolize Che. He’s a very popular figure in India’s Communist state of Kerela. I doubt the old men hanging out in the local reading room are in it for the “cool” factor.

[ralph124c]

…after the Cuban revolution, Guevara presided over several “peolpe’s courts” , where members of the Batista government and army were “tried”. I say “tried” because confessions were prepared for the defendants, and there was no counsel afforded to these miserable souls. Guevara approved hundreds of executions, and didn’t bat an eyelash!
I wonder how many people idolize Adolf Hitler or Joseph stalin, in the same way?

[msmith537]

@Polerius

As someone who has never heard of such a thing…what the hell is a conservative Eastern private university?

What the hell do you think it is?

Students at my school idolized Dr Dre (the only black man they knew not on the basketball team) and Anheiser Bush, not Che Guevara.

[Padeye]

@ralph124c

I wonder how many people idolize Adolf Hitler or Joseph stalin, in the same way?

Perhaps not so many for Stalin but I’d wager that most who idolize Hitler today do so specifically because of what he did.

[DrDeth]

@ralph124c

Another addition to the Che Guevara mystique: there is very good evidence that Castro wanted to be rid ofhim. hence, the “missionary” trip of Che to Bolivia. Che was “set up” ,in the Mafia sense of the word…his presence was leaked to the Bolivian military, who promptly ambushed and killed Che!
All of whhich makes the funeral orations by Castro a bit over the top…he wanted Che out and had him killed, like any Mafia don would have a subordinate “whacked”.

Note that the new film has as it ending (or so I hear) that Che was “killed by the CIA”.
:dubious:

[An_Arky]

@jayjay

[snip]…people aren’t good enough for communism to work except in very small, self-selecting groups.

I’d venture that the same applies to capitalism…not that I’m some commie pinko, I’m just sayin’…

[jayjay]

@An Arky

I’d venture that the same applies to capitalism…not that I’m some commie pinko, I’m just sayin’…

Except that capitalism at least offers incentives to contribute to society instead of simply expecting people to do it out of the goodness of their hearts.

[BrainGlutton]

@jayjay

Except that capitalism at least offers incentives to contribute to society instead of simply expecting people to do it out of the goodness of their hearts.

No, jayjay. Capitalism merely offers people incentives to do profitable things. Sometimes those things contribute to society. . . and sometimes they don’t.

[BrainGlutton]

@ralph124c

Another addition to the Che Guevara mystique: there is very good evidence that Castro wanted to be rid ofhim. hence, the “missionary” trip of Che to Bolivia. Che was “set up” ,in the Mafia sense of the word…his presence was leaked to the Bolivian military, who promptly ambushed and killed Che!
All of whhich makes the funeral orations by Castro a bit over the top…he wanted Che out and had him killed, like any Mafia don would have a subordinate “whacked”.

Cite, please?

[Cisco]

@Padeye

I spent a month in German in the Victoria Park hotel in Langen, just south of Frankfurt. The lounge/cigar bar had a decidedly post revolutionary Cuban motif. The place was practically a shrine to Fidel and Che with more than a dozen portraits of them on the walls. I got into several enlightening discussions with my German and British colleagues about US attitudes toward Cuba and communism.

['scuse this very slight off-topic comment] You’re a really interesting guy, Padeye. We need to have another valley dopefest. I’d love to hear more about this.

[BrainGlutton]

@Padeye

I spent a month in German in the Victoria Park hotel in Langen, just south of Frankfurt. The lounge/cigar bar had a decidedly post revolutionary Cuban motif. The place was practically a shrine to Fidel and Che with more than a dozen portraits of them on the walls. I got into several enlightening discussions with my German and British colleagues about US attitudes toward Cuba and communism.

Just out of curiosity, how many in the former East Germany still believe in Communism or in socialism?

[laigle]

1. He looks fucking cool. Let’s face it, if this guy had a guitar the Stones would have been opening for him.

2. It pisses off authority figures.

3. They don’t know (and largely don’t care) about his politics.
   That said, I think people are going overboard about how bad Che was. I’d say a good comparison would be Danton, another charismatic leader in a violent revolution. Neither one was someone you’d want to emulate, but they weren’t Hitler. If you’re going to overthrow a government, you’re going to have to kiill a bunch of people in the process. That’s why the effete intellectuals bitch about revolution in cafes and the more thuggish malcontents actually carry them out.

[Quasimodal]

Thanks for the input everyone. SOme of my friends are musicians and they often wear Che clothing etc. I ask them what he was about and they reply “the revolution!” It’s too bad they didn’t research what the revolution was. I’m interested to see these two new Che movies coming out (che and the Motorcycle Diaries) to see how hollywood treats him. It seems almost like a rewrite of history by the positive spin media has given him.

And I agree he is bad ass looking. Thats probably why he’s so marketable.

Q.

[Mighty_Girl]

@Rune

*“Che was a totalitarian. He achieved nothing but disaster. Many of the early leaders of the Cuban Revolution favored a democratic or democratic-socialist direction for the new Cuba. But Che was a mainstay of the hardline pro-Soviet faction, and his faction won. Che presided over the Cuban Revolution’s first firing squads. He founded Cuba’s “labor camp” system—the system that was eventually employed to incarcerate gays, dissidents, and AIDS victims” *

I am not trying to pick nits, but how comes he had anything to do with that if he died in 1967? Was AIDS being diagnosed then?

[Mighty_Girl]

D’oh! I missed the word “eventually”. My bad, ignore my questions. Let’s just pretend this never happened. :smack:

[KidCharlemagne]

Let’s put it this way: While there were other factors, he wouldn’t be idolized if he wasn’t handsome.