I think this is an important distinction. Based on my general experience, I would say that for every “Archie Bunker” (somebody who loudly complains about this group or that); there are a thousand people who would cross the street rather than walk through a group of young black men hanging out on the corner, late at night.
I have no problem saying that both are racist.
As far as institutionalized racism goes, I think that’s more of a gray area. But when the OP wasn’t about policies. It’s about individuals and beliefs. I think most of us can come to agreement about who’s a racist person, even if we have different opinions about AA.
It is an overreaction, but I can totally dig it. I think for many black people, battle fatigue set in a long time ago. If a guy like Obama can’t escape racial mockery, then you start feeling like, when is it ever going to end? And why shouldn’t I worry about myself, surrounded by all these white folks who don’t really understand why that kind of stuff is hurtful?
I have to admit that tears came to my eyes watching the Palin Mob clip, with that scary, lazy-eyed woman yelling in the camera. It makes me afraid that people could be so hateful and angry, while calling themselves Christian.
Upon reflection, I’d like to deete the word “tiny” from that last sentence.
As soon as I saw your thread title, monstro, I came rushing in here to post about that radio interview.
I was flabbergasted. Her logic just made no sense. Even if black people did want to “take over,” how would having Obama in the White House make that possible? The idea that black people are suddenly going to make white people step off the sidewalk is absurd. As are her vague allusions to things getting “nasty out there.” I liked the black guy who spoke after her–“people don’t riot when they’re happy!”
I’ll bet that there will be some black people who react to the news of an Obama win in a less-than-constructive way. And there will be some white people who do the same. So what? There are jerks in every group.
I said above that I was “flabbergasted” by the comments on the radio. I wasn’t surprised, though. Because a coworker made the same types of comments to me 3 weeks ago. (Fortunately, she’s an ex-coworker now.)
She expressed that she was “afraid” of an Obama win because black people would riot and try to take over, and if their attempts to take over the country were quashed, then they’d get really violent.
For what it’s worth, she didn’t say that Obama would explicitly support this kind of thing but that the rest of the black people would take it as a license to do what they have been wanting to do all along.
As it turns out, she thought I was a Republican. And she was really surprised when I told her that I’ve been working for Obama.
Maybe it was an overreaction, but I sympathise. Most of the time I skip through life blithely unaware of the everyday anti-Semitism that still exists. But when it breaks through…it hurts. It really hurts. If there was a wonderful Jewish candidate up for the presidency, and someone distributed a similar type of fake bill…I’d probably cry for 45 minutes too.
To me, the fact that you can name three out-of-the-closet racists period suggest that they aren’t really that rare. But we must be using a different definition of “rare”.
Just to clarify, this wasn’t a people on the street thing. So it’s not like they interviewed fifty people before they stumbled across this one person. And she’s been on the show before without expressing anything so extreme.
I don’t want to brainwash people into thinking “good” thoughts. But I firmly believe it’s impossible to be nice and cordial and fair to someone if you secretly despise them. If I’m trying to get a job, I’d like to trust that I don’t have to worry about my name sounding too “black” for the person hired to cull through the resumes. If I’m interviewing for the job, I’d like to know that the person asking me questions isn’t about to talk shit about the “uppity nigger” the moment I step out of the room. When at least 2.5% of the population is overtly prejudiced (based on the anectdotal reporting you’ve provided WhyNot, then it doesn’t seem like a bad idea to be paranoid.
sigh
Her comment implies that black people don’t behave like white people. We’ve had white people in power since Heck was a pup and there has not been chaos (although we do seem to be living in chaotic times now). So why in the hell would she expect black people to behave differently with one of “theirs” in power, unless she believed that black people have qualities that white people do not? Why does she think she’ll be pushed off the curb (!) while her black counterparts don’t share the same worry when whites are in power?
If you’re really interested in participating in this thread rather than shitting in it, why don’t you offer up your definition of racism? Because it can’t be that different from mine, since we BOTH agree that the woman harbors racist beliefs*.
*I don’t know why I’m being so polite. The woman is a racist, plain and simple.
No, one racist. Increasing the pool of people I know, still just the one racist sister in law. So that’s 1.1% of the people I interact with on a social level.
Somebody had to talk to her to get her booked. Did they know what she was going to say? Maybe not. But, again, that’s one person, one time. I know for a fact that the jerks are more likely to make it on camera on the nightly news - I’ve done plenty of moderate, reasonable interviews, and the only one that ever made it on air was a woo-woo one about aromatherapy. The angry or incoherent interview done just before or after me always seems to preempt mine. No one’s interested in average.
Well okay. Then I’m more comfortable stating that the people I know aren’t racist. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that my friends might be racist and I’m just not seeing it.
How 'bout when I got a job interview *because *my name sounded black? I guess that was an overt example of racism, now that you mention it. I got the job even when they realized I was white at the interview, though.
1.1%, actually (1/90). But of course that leads to another question: what, to you, would “tiny, insignificant minority” be? What percent should we aim for, if we agree with John Mace that 0% is impossible? Because I would consider even something as high as 2.5% to be tiny, if not entirely insignificant. So you’ll have to define that term for a meaningful discussion, as well.
I don’t think racists are a “tiny, insignificant minority” here in MS, but that probably comes as no surprise to anybody. It’s quite annoying to have people think that just because you’re white you’re in agreement with their racist beliefs. They also automatically think you’re a Baptist and a Republican. (I’m 0 for 3 there.) We also have some black folks whom I’d call racist, but the white ones outnumber them significantly (IME).
I just dunno if the woman quoted in the OP said something racist or not. Here’s what first struck me about it: she sounds like the kind of person who thinks that everyone acts and reacts just like they do. Since the white majority in the past oppressed the black folks, she thinks that black folks would jump at the chance to do the same.
Now, I think she’s wrong, very wrong to think that; because everybody has learned that we need to treat each other a whole lot better than that; and to compare today’s citizens with that old school crowd is naive at best. I just can’t decide if she said it because she thinks black people are that uneducated or whether she thinks they’re all animals. One would be racist thinking and one wouldn’t necessarily (IMO).
One think I think about people is that if a person isn’t ranting over-the-top things about their racist beliefs, then they think “that’s not ‘real’ racism”. For example, sending an email with a photo of Obama as a shoe-shine boy, shining Palin’s shoes isn’t racist, it’s ‘funny’ and you’re ‘no fun’ if you don’t like it. People are in denial about their views, monstro. They think “He’s a good person, He’s not a racist”. They’re not being honest with themselves.
A recent poll indicates that Obama’s support among whites is greater than that of any Democratic presidential candidate of the past 30 years. That certainly doesn’t mean racism isn’t a problem, but I found it interesting.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/24/politics/politico/main4544827.shtml
I imagine everyone who’s posted or lurked on this thread has had at least one encounter with a racist–a fully grown person with some degree of power and influence, possibly having children of their own. Maybe this person was ranting about “niggers and spics” while vacuuming their living rooms. Or maybe they aren’t so blatant, but we still suspect them of having certain leanings.
I don’t know what would constitute “tiny, insignificant”. But when everyone’s got a story, and I hear these stories almost every friggin’ day, then I’m not thinking we’re at “tiny, insignificant” levels quite yet. But hey! Maybe I’m just a looney!
I’ll tell you who I’m comfortable calling “tiny, insignificant” :
American Communists
Militia-types
Al-Queda sympathizers
NAMBLA people
Satan worshipers
Vampires
Flat-Earthers
I don’t know anyone who falls in the above groups, though I’m sure they exist.
Being a white guy, I should be privy to these comments, but honestly I cannot recall the last time I heard one. I guess that is what I get for letting my membership in the Klan lapse.
The ass handed to them comment was directed at if a store keeper said such a racist comment, there is an excellent chance that a TV news crew would be there shortly to film the protest march. Also there could be legal implications of such comments. See protected class.
Thank you for saying that, so much better than I could have.
My mother in law is racist, but she is pushing 80 and was raised in the South. Time will cure her racism soon enough. My SIL and her husband, no. My parents were not racist, and my sister for sure isn’t (married outside her race). Neither are my children. All of my cousins, aunts and uncles aren’t to the best of my knowledge.
So one racist out of about 30 people is not a huge percentage. However when looking for a story the reporter would go with my MIL rather than the 29 non-racists in my family.
Dog bites man is not news, man bites dog is.
Now that’s funny. I know more than a half dozen members or former members of the Communist Party USA (and way more who have Che Guevara shirts and KNOW who he was and what he stood for). I know 4 actual registered, dues paying members of the Church of Satan and three Vampires.
I wasn’t trying to provide a real estimate of racist people in America, by the way. I live in a liberal urban area, and so I’d expect to know fewer racists than **NinetyWt **does. I’ve also chosen not to pursue friendships with people who reveal themselves in word or deed to be racist, so they’re not part of my daily awareness any longer. I was just trying to answer the literal question in your OP: why do I have the impression that racists are a tiny minority? Because, in my life, they are.
And my point to you is that people, even the victims, usually don’t say anything because it’s not worth the trouble. If a black store keeper called you a honkey, would you necessarily call your local news and hold a march? Or would you make a mental note to create a Pit thread about it later and then forget about the whole thing?
The thing is people bring suits against businesses all the time for discrimination. And when they do, lots of people automatically assume the plaintiff’s making shit up and side with their beloved restaurant, gas station, or big-box department store.
Absolutely. This is how our brains work. We’re 100billion neuron pattern matchers and we find patterns and categories everywhere. Whether it’s racism, sexism, or just “you’re from a different neighborhood”-ism, it appears to be the very basis for our brains function (and our success, most likely).
The best we can do attempt to limit it through education.
Well…if we’re playing dueling anecdotes…
My mother got remarried to a black man in my teens and made the “mistake” of going to her mother’s funeral with him. The reaction from almost all of her aunts, uncles and cousins was ugly in the extreme. I got a foreboding whiff of this, before her wedding, when my mother’s younger sister, after asking whether it bothered me that she was marrying a black man and I said no, admitted that it bothered her deeply and she just couldn’t help but think of blacks as inferior ( she said this in an honest, but slightly distressed and also slightly embarassed tone ). Now these are mostly suburban/exurban Virginians/Marylanders and before this event I never heard any of them express any racist thought at all. But it turns out that much of this ( numerous ) side of my family are in fact racist when it comes "miscegenation."I would never have known this if not for that funeral.
Now my father’s side of the family I just don’t know - I suspect it is mild and unconscious if it exists as they just don’t have much contact with black folks, being from lily-white parts of Western Pennsylvania. My immediate family of course is not at all ( both of my step-brothers are in interracial marriages ), my friends are not and I live in liberal-town U.S.A. where racists are much less common and more circumspect ( but I’ve met some here, nonetheless ).
But my own unfortunate anecdotal experience leads me to question just how rare racism is in the United States. I do believe it is declining and has certainly improved in my lifetime. But is it rare? I dunno. I believe it was Nate Silver that said that 6% of the voting populace has indicated they won’t for Obama based on race. Does 6% count as rare or just uncommon?
If six percent of black people said they would not vote for a white candidate, how many people here would stop to measure rarity before crying racism?
And don’t forget, that’s just how many people you can get to admit it. Most of the rampant, dangerous racism now is not intentional, which is why we’re in such a sticky situation. White people get upset because they were taught that racist is one of the worst things to be, and because they genuinely don’t harbor conscious bias against other races. All their racial insecurities, resentments and nightmares come barreling out whenever any white person is accused of racism as a result. Everybody else gets upset because white people get away with denying the reality of their daily experiences while (mostly) still having the best intentions, and just being blinded by privilege.
Ever notice how White people talk about racism like this, but Black people talk about racism like this?
Nate Silver actually took issue with that figure.
Yeah, it’s not racism, per se, that is innate but “groupism”. Racism is just one form of in-group/out-group categorizing that is simply part of the way we think as social animals. Fortunately, our brains are also capable of tempering those natural tendencies, although I’d be very suspect of the idea that we can eliminate them.
I actually agree with a lot of what John Mace is saying here. There is some tendency in human nature that can lead to racism, and short of changing human nature, racism is probably here to stay.
This election season in 2008 has proven that racism is a minority, but a minority that can still have a sadly significant political effect.