Why do we keep insisting that racists are a tiny, insiginificant minority?

Great Debates
121

I have lived for most of the past quarter century in countries with an overwhelming black majority. I live in a majority black country today. As I am congenitally melanin-deficient myself, this means I have spent many years in the minority. And I can assure you that the view from the minority side of the divide is profoundly different from the view from the majority side.

One of the clearest examples of the state of racism in America is the way that black/white couples are viewed. My black friends with inter-racial marriages definitely do not like going to America. The only state where they do not draw pointed stares and whispered comments is Hawaii.

I grew up in the 50’s, so I am well aware of the many miles that America has come in my lifetime. However, it’s very depressing to me that so many people think that the number of miles that we’ve come means that racism no longer exists. Racism is pervasive in America, as the OP points out, from little old ladies to good old boys.

This should come as no surprise, as racism, or perhaps more accurately xenophobia, is as old as humanity. Nothing will cure that but time. In general, these days children in the US are less racist than their parents. As the old racists die and their children become more accepting of all of the differences of the human species, racism will eventually wither away.

But that’s years from now, and speaking of today, racism is alive and well in America. We’re working on, we’ve come many miles … but we have miles more to go.

w.

PS - it is worth noting that racism is one form of xenophobia. The word means “an unreasoning fear of what is different”. I say it is worth noting because at its core, racism is not really about hatred. It is about fear … which means that we are not fighting hatred, we are fighting fear. This is a very different fight, one which calls for very different strategies and tactics than we might use to fight hatred.

122

Monstro, what have you done in your life so far to rid yourself of your own racism and work toward tearing down walls of misunderstanding that both whites and blacks have?

No one knows how many active racists there are in this country. But it only takes a few to make a significant difference. But sometimes I think that you think that all white citizens spend their lives in a society where people feel comfortable in making racial slurs against blacks and do so with frequency. My experience is very much limited to the middle class South, but I just don’t hear it.

I did have a friend who surprised me by using the n-word one day and I told her never to use it again in my house. I also told her that I would appreciate it if she never used it again in my presence. We didn’t speak again for three years. We had been friends since childhood. I had never heard her use the word before. I also have a relative who used to use it but he’s never here. He is voting for Obama. So is my old friend.

Because I haven’t been a frequent victim of racial bigotry (most of the racism that I have experienced has been here at SDMB), I haven’t thought about race that much since my days of involvement in career plannning. I think more about culltures since I live in a multi-cultural neighborhood. I’m just not focused on race. I was mugged by a black person, but in this neighborhood he could have been from another ethnic group and so could I. He was a very polite mugger and let me have my purse back when I asked.

Outside of family, I have five people – all women – who have been most loved and influential in my life. One of those is a black woman, now deceased. I have never known anyone more full of grace.

You can dwell on the very justified resentment which your parents and your ancestors before them have felt. You can turn a blind eye when they, in turn, perpetuate racism of their own and create still more problems for today and the future. You can dwell on the negative and refuse to see any sign of the change that is unfolding before your eyes.

I am aware that your viewpoint may be clouded by your recent illness. Depression affects parts of the brain close to our judgment center. You may be thinking perfectly clearly or you may still be on the downside.

Finally, Gandhi said, “Be the change you want to see.”

I hope you are feeling better. Give yourself time.

123

“Racism” per se will be more or less eradicated I have no doubt in due course - as in, the notion that certain people are genetically inferior or superior based on the colour of their skin, and thus individuals may be judged by their skin colour alone without consideration of other characteristics.

That is simply a very specialized subset of bigotry. It is overlain with a much more generalized form of discrimination, based more on class, culture and income and rooted in US history - the continuing seperation of large segments of the Black minority from the White majority in terms of income, housing, employment and culture.

Many people of the “I’m not racist, but …” camp aren’t lying: they aren’t racist, in the first sense of the word. They are afraid of the Big Scary Ghetto Black Man™, of the sort you can see popularized in rap videos and the like - but they will happily vote for Mr. Super Educated Well Spoken Clean Cut Obama™. What they fear is not a skin colour, but the different.

That’s why “racists” (of the first sort) are probably not a very influential minority - which, unfortunately, says nothing whatsoever about prejudgment and bigotry; and this is also why, though the (very probable) election of Obama is a very hopeful sign it will not mark the end of this sort of prejudgment/bigotry - which is ultimately based more on class and cultural differences than on skin colour.

124

There really ought to be as many words for “racism” as the eskimos have for “snow”.

It sounds like your teacher was applying a lot of positive reinforcement to her black students because she felt that they–and possibly the black commuity as a whole–would benefit. Did she at any point express diasappointment that her theories about black inferiority were being proven wrong because her black were not living down to her expectations?

I think each different “species” of racism should be dissected separately to find out what makes them tick, rather than lumped together as thought they were all “Southern Style” racism.

As for Obama, he’s not simply being given a pat on the head for being an unusually intelligent black person. We’re trusting him enough to elevate him to the presidency, and in so doing, we’re agreeing that he’s better than all of us.

125

I will absolutely cop to that type of “racism”. I am scared of the common portrayal of that subset of men who make what to me seem to be threatening aggressive gestures, stand and walk as if they’re about to lunge and attack, and don’t make eye contact. My culture, my upbringing and lessons in reading body language, tell me that people who do that aren’t safe or predictable.

Obama carries himself like people I am familiar with. I can read his body language, so I’m not threatened by him. There are plenty of black people who I’m comfortable with because I know how to read them. There are only a few, described above, who I’m uncomfortable around, and furthermore there are Latino and white boys who do the same thing, and I’m uncomfortable around them, too. I do judge them based on how they’re holding themselves and how they choose to portray themselves. So, tell me, is it a race thing if I’m scared of the gangsta white boys *and *the gangsta black boys, and I’m not scared of most black or white men?

That’s an honest question, I’m willing to hear a “yes” in response. But if monstro’s honest in wanting to know where the denial of racism comes from, she’s got to be open to hearing what some people DON’T consider racism. When I say I’m not racist and neither are my friends, I’m not counting this fear, because I think it’s behaviorally and culturally (sub-culturally) based, not racially based.

126

Ok. Point taken. I don’t wanna get to the point where I shout ‘racism’ at every turn. And like I said, I get along with people like that teacher just fine. Maybe you’re right…maybe she didn’t have low expectations. I am willing to give people the benefit of the doubt, to avoid crying ‘racism’ when none is intended.

127

I assume you refer to the Title Question in your OP:

**(by Monstro: ) ** "Why do we keep insisting that racists are a tiny, insiginificant minority?"
I don’t know who is “insisting” anything, but to answer the question of your OP in my experience:

Rabid, mean-spirited racists whose behaviour toward whichever race they are despising is ugly in person, are a tiny, insignificant minority. Some of them are vocal.

Rabid, mean-spirited racists who espouse an abstract view but who are at least civil in person toward their target race are more common but still relatively few.

The other sorts of more-inclusive definitions of racists, many of which are discussed above, are common. They reflect the natural clannishness of the human condition.

128

The problem is there are degrees of racism. For instance, I was raised with black people and all my friends are black. But here’s an example of my racism. My building was owned by a Polish man who sold it to a man who rented out to blacks.

A month ago someone was murdered right outside of my building. We have drugs dealers in front of the building. The cops are in hauling people out at least once a week.

Now I said “Geez I wish he hadn’t rented to all these blacks.” Of course that’s a racist statement, but I didn’t mean that at all. I don’t care what color a person is as long as they aren’t druggies.

But you can see how racism starts from this example.

129

I’m one of those people who would cross the street. Keep in mind though that I would also cross the street to avoid the group if they were all white, brown or any other color.

130

Finally, some statistics. These don’t include unaffiliated racists who harbor a minor mistrust or even patently false stereotypes and resentments for past mistreatment:

According to a local news station in Nashville which was covering the story of the two two idiots who were arrested for “planning” to assassinate Obama and murder many other blacks, there are 888 hate groups in the United States. Thirty-eight of them are in Tennessee, the home of one of the toads who was arrested.

I don’t know if he belonged to any of those 38 groups. I know of no particular active groups within the state, but they don’t send out invitations to their meetings to the general public. When Skullbone, TN has one of their big concerts, I have read that there are usually people claiming to be from the Klan who show up. That is not to far from Bells, home of the toad. I also grew up nearby and didn’t know of any activities when I was growing up.

I did find out after I left that people that I had thought were loving and decent human beings were foul-mouth bigots. That did come as a shock.

131

Zoe I have to wonder about those numbers … 8’s together (although usually just 88) is usually just a code for hate groups (see the Obama plot thread for an explanation). Maybe someone was messing with the reporters?

But you did inspire me to look for some real numbers. Figures on hate crimes are an imperfect stand-in for the incidence of attitudes but they ae something that we can at least somewhat follow. A report to the UN agrees with monstro’s op

Putting these figures into a broader context.

Another source that documents some recent increases, discussing the status of many hate groups and which includes this observation:

So the statistics seem to bear out that the worst hate is far from eliminated. Is it a true correlate for the pervasiveness of those attitudes? Maybe.

Mind you I still think that such is different than prejudging a resume based on an inner city Black name being attached to it. That sort of prejudgement may have racist effects but may less reflect a racist attitude than a classist one. The same employer may equally unlikely to look further at a resume with the name Billy Joe Bob or Bambi.b

132

Dseid, thanks for your comment. You quote what you call a “report to the UN” that says:

Unfortunately:

  1. That is not a report to the UN. It is a response to a UN report from some private group called the “Center for Democratic Renewal”.

  2. The evil twins did not make it to number 4 on the Billboard charts, and as near as I can determine, their song did not make it on the Billboard charts at all.

It also says:

Those numbers mix apples and oranges. They are comparing the number of victims to the numbers of offenses. Also, the number of “intimidation” crimes that they list has nothing to do with hate crimes.

Throw your first citation in the trash, it can’t be trusted.

w.

133

There is a good historical summary of the hate crime numbers here. It shows that racially motivated hate crimes peaked in 1996, and since then they have dropped about 25% to 2006, the last year recorded.

However, it is small numbers and over a short time (only 12 years of data) so I would not put much weight on it.

One oddity of the data is the breakdown by race of the victims. Over the 12 years for which we have data, the breakdown of racial hate crimes is:

Anti-White , 21%
Anti-Black , 67%
Anti-American Indian/Alaskan Native , 1%
Anti-Asian/Pacific Islander , 6%
Anti-Multi-Racial Group , 5%

I would not have guessed that anti-white hate crimes would be #2 on the hit parade, nor that anti-white and anti-black would together make up ~ 90% of the racially motivated hate crimes.

w.

134

Wouldn’t that be because we’re (if classified by race) the two largest groups in the U.S.?

135

Excellent point. And this fear is (in my opinion, anyway) based more on what’s unfamiliar than what’s different. If you live next to a bunch of Mexicans, but you’ve never actually met an Indian, you’re much more likely to fear the first Indian you meet.

People do have a fear of the unknown, and always will.

136

You are correct. However, I was just surprised that there was so much anti-white violence … and also by the fact that black folks make up somewhere around a tenth of the population, yet receive two thirds of the attacks.

Yes, there is still racism in the good ole’ USA …

w.

137

Wombat, thanks for picking up on what I thought was the most important point.

I believe it was the OP who discussed some elderly white lady who was afraid that if Obama won there would be rioting in the streets. This illustrates my point exactly. She does not hate black people, she fears black people. If we want to bring an end to that, we have to learn how to assuage those fears. Fighting hatred won’t help her at all.

As you point out, the fear is often based on the unknown. People are not afraid that the black guy who owns the corner store will riot, because they know him. It’s the unknown others they are concerned about.

I believe that TV and movies been an immense factor for progress in this regard. We think we know Bill Cosby, and Oprah, even though we’ve never met them. And because we “know” them, we are not afraid that Oprah is going to riot.

However, this is likely to be a very long process, as emotions and points of view are often based on things which are unseen and unsuspected by those who experience them. Rumor, urban legend, childhood dreams good and bad, a host of unknown factors shape our own fears in ways we don’t have a clue about.

Overall, however, I remain optimistic. When I was a kid, “Whites Only” signs were common. My daughter, on the other hand, has never seen one. Eventually, of course, it won’t be an issue because we’ll mostly be the same color, some kind of delicious golden light chocolate shade.

In Fiji there is a marvelous term for mixed race people, they are called “kai loma”.

Now, “kai” means people, and “loma” means the centre of something. “Kai loma”, then, are “the people of the centre”, the people who today are the color that someday everyone will be, the color of my great-great-great-etc grandkids, that centre of the human race that we are all moving towards … and in that distant day, races will just be a memory.

Can’t happen soon enough in my book … I just wish I could live long enough to see it.

w.

138

intention, thank you for finding a better data source than what I was able to uncover. The anti-White probably includes attacks against Jews, Muslims, gays, transgendered, and many ethnic Whites. It should be interpreted accordingly.

Again, it only partly answers the question of how much hateful racism there is. And any violent hate crime at all puts racism as above “insignificance”. Still it is somewhat hopeful that your numbers at least show some decrease.

You are also expressing I think a bit more clearly what I had been trying to say but had difficulty articulating. Hatred, fear, ignorance, biases, etc … may be interrelated and may have some similar effects, but our best responses to each may vary. Thank you.

OTOH, I have no eagerness to seeing us all look alike. I enjoy the variety.

139

Maybe that’s one of the factors that get missed in the discussions of whether there are fewer racists these days or not. In the past, it was O.K. to be a racist. It was socially acceptable.

These days, society does not accept racists. They exist, but they can’t put a “no spics” sign on their window, or force blacks to the back of the bus. Forcing it underground is a good step in the right direction.

I’m glad that won’t happen in my lifetime. I like diversity. I revel in my heritage, and enjoy other people that do.

I just want to get to the point where skin color has the same significance as hair color.

140

Wombat, I couldn’t agree more on both counts. I am continually amazed by all of the shades and colors of humanity. I generally find kai loma people to be the most beautiful/handsome, whatever the mix and whoever the parents. They always seem to get the best of both sides.

But that’s just me, and of course all the other tints and flavors are awesome as well, humanity is astounding.

Best comment I ever heard on race was from a totally charming black guy I had a drink with in Senegal. He said “Maybe your grandfather did something to my grandfather … but what the fuck has that got to do with you and me?”

Now if only the Middle East could adopt that attitude …

His comment was particularly apropos considering that my beloved and awe-inspiring grandmother had a father who I never met, a feared and distant figure called “The Captain” by his wife and twelve children.

In his youth, her father served as a cabin boy on one run of his uncle’s slave ship. It ran the “triangle trade” – Britain to Senegal with copper and guns and axes, Senegal to Jamaica with slaves, Jamaica to Britain with sugar and rum and molasses.

He was sickened by the experience, he became strongly anti-slavery, and he left Britain for the US to eventually become a riverboat captain on the Mississippi. My grandmother grew up in 1890’s Louisiana in the bayous, part of the only white family for miles, surrounded by black families and what were locally called “redbone indians”. And she was the least racist person I’ve ever known. She worked actively and tirelessly for equality and human rights starting in the early 1900s, when she immediately scandalized her new husband’s upstate New York town by insisting that black people enter her house through the front door, and not the back door as was the ironclad unwritten rule at the time. From that start, she never slowed down. She devoted her life to the dream of equality of races and sexes and nationalities, and she was loved and respected by people of every color.

Go figure … gives me something to aspire to. I’d say in all seriousness she was twice the man I am …