The California Correctional Peace Officers Association has massive political influence in this state and is the lobby most responsible for defeating Prop 5 (the Nonviolent Offender Rehabilitation Act) in 2008. They very much desire a continuing supply of prisoners and their union is usually the biggest spenders when it comes to defeating attempts to diminish the number of prisoners in our state.
Hey, i’m sorry that I in turn came across as snarky. I tried deleting the “hurr durr” comment in edit, but that effed up the YT link.
As for Behring Breivik having a suite…
He’ll never get out. Never. I distinctly remember American posters here, when he was entenced, expressing disbelief that he only got 18 years (which was maximum in Norway at the time). But it came with the caveat that before release, he’ll go up for a review (I din’t remember the details), something likle a U.S. parole board, I guess.
They will never realease him, especially since so far he’s shown no remorse, not even faked.
So should he be in a “suite?”
I think a lot of people have a skewed opinion about jail time (n.b. not only Americans). When your freedom is taken away, it’s not only the accommodations (and often lack thereof), but mostly how restricted your life is. What you eat, when you sleep, when you shower, where you are physically allowed to go be when outside the cell. Stop and think about having basically all agency taken away from you. I think the coziness, so to say, of where you’re locked up is just one of many factors.
And society makes a choice: Is prison/jail (i’ll never learn the diff.) about punishment or correction/rehabilitation. From an outsider’s POV, ISTM that the U.S: is more focused on punishment. That seems to be a trend in large parts of the world, with the U.S. - as ever - being the trailblazer.
While this doesn’t exactly support the opinion of @madmonk28, it’ doesn’t exactly paint a pretty picture.
It’s both actually. The point of prison is 1) punishment for your crime, 2) protection for society from you, 3) deterrence for others to commit crimes, and 4) correction and rehabilitation. The relative emphasis of each of those is dependent on the prison you are in, which of course is dependent on the crime you committed.
Their Union did support the Three Strikes law, certainly. But even this anti article admits-
Having suggested that the union works to keeps the prisons full in order to protect its membership and power, Goldberg concedes that that self-interest appears to coincide with the union leaders’ sincere beliefs on criminal justice policy. Goldberg says she’s convinced that CCPOA leaders genuinely think it’s in society’s interests to keep repeat criminals behind bars for 25 years to life - even those who commit relatively minor third strikes.
“I think it’s unfair to say that they’re just trying to make sure they have a job next year,” says Goldberg. “I don’t believe that. But I do believe that they have a skewed sense of reality.”
Yep. Their Union did support the 3 strikes law., but mostly they argue for better working condition and better pay. It is a nasty job.
They did donate about half of the $ spent to defeat it, but among dozens of other groups.
Here is what they mostly spent their $$ on-
The union under President Glen Stailey gave $1.75 million to Newsom’s anti-recall campaign in 2021 – the largest single contribution to that effort – and another $1 million to support Proposition 1, Newsom’s treatment and housing plan for people experiencing serious mental illness, which passed by the narrowest of margins this year.
So they were against Prop 5, but massively supported Prop 1, which were similar.
But their million $ is a drop in the overall Lobby bucket for CA-
They rank 17th overall in lobbying. So, hardly “massive”.
If he had claimed issues and abuses, I wouldnt have asked for a cite. But I am not buying “torture”.
Here’s a cite for you:
Supermax confinement, no less than any other, is subject to human rights standards contained in treaties signed by the United States and binding on state and federal officials.1 According to these standards, corrections authorities must respect the inherent dignity of each inmate and may not subject prisoners to treatment that constitutes torture or that is cruel, inhuman, or degrading. Unfortunately, state and federal corrections departments are operating supermax facilities in ways that violate basic human rights. 2 The conditions of confinement are unduly severe and disproportionate to legitimate security and inmate management objectives; impose pointless suffering and humiliation; and reflect a stunning disregard of the fact that all prisoners – even those deemed the “worst of the worst” – are members of the human community.
< snip >
1 The principal relevant treaties are the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, ratified by the U.S. June 8, 1992 and October 21,1994 respectively. Detailed guidelines fleshing out the treatment of prisoners consistent with human rights principles are contained in the United Nations Standard Minimum Rules for the Treatment of Prisoners. Both treaties and the Standard Minimum Rules can be found at www.un.org. 2 This briefing paper draws on extensive research on the operation of super-maximum security facilities in the U.S., including the inspection of eight state and federal supermax facilities. Human Rights Watch has published two human rights analyses of supermax facilities. See Human Rights Watch, Cold Storage: Super-maximum Security Confinement in Indiana (New York: Human Rights Watch, 1997) and Red Onion State Prison: Super-Maximum Security Confinement in Virginia (New York: Human Rights Watch, 1999). - SOURCE
And another:
“They beat the shit out of you,” Mike James said, hunched near the smeared plexiglass separating us. He was talking about the cell “extractions” he’d endured at the hands of the supermax-unit guards at the Maine State Prison.
“They push you, knee you, poke you,” he said, his voice faint but ardent through the speaker. “They slam your head against the wall and drop you on the floor while you’re cuffed.” He lifted his manacled hands to a scar on his chin. “They split it wide open. They’re yelling ‘Stop resisting! Stop resisting!’ when you’re not even moving.”
When you meet Mike James you notice first his deep-set eyes and the many scars on his shaved head, including a deep, horizontal gash. He got that by scraping his head on the cell door slot, which guards use to pass in food trays.
They were messing with me,” he explained, referring to the guards who taunted him. “I couldn’t stand it no more.” He added, “I’ve knocked myself out by running full force into the wall. - SOURCE
And another:
This week the European Court of Human Rights temporarily halted the extradition of four terrorism suspects from the United Kingdom to the United States. The court concluded that the applicants had raised a serious question whether their possible long-term incarceration in a U.S. “supermax” prison would violate Article 3 of the European Convention on Human Rights, which prohibits “torture or … inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.” The court noted that “complete sensory isolation, coupled with total social isolation, can destroy the personality and constitutes a form of inhuman treatment which cannot be justified by the requirements of security or any other reason,” and called for additional submissions from the parties before finally deciding the applicants’ claim. - SOURCE
Simplified explanation: Jail is for short sentences and pre-trial detention. Sentences over a year are served in prison.
First source is Human Rights Watch.
Next is a Op?ed article the Boston review, and another cite from it-
In 2008 the UN special rapporteur on torture, Manfred Nowak, recommended that solitary confinement “be kept to a minimum, used in very exceptional cases, for as short a time as possible, and only as a last resort”—limits that U.S. supermaxes violate in the course of normal operation…Solitary confinement is by far the worst torture in the supermax.
So, no the UN has not said “and regularly uses tactics that the UN has deemed to be torture.”.
One UN Investigator did recommend that Solitary be used as little as possible. That isnt the same as the UN officially condemning US prisons for torture.
Given that the US has a veto at the UN you will never, ever see the UN officially say the US is using torture.
That doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.
Only in the Security Council, not in the General assembly.
There are something like 5 or 6 levels of prison.
Level 1 are the camps where white collar criminals go. You could just walk off the prison grounds if you wanted to in these places. But if you do, you’ll get sent to a more serious prison.
Level 2 are a little more secure
The prisons you see on TV are generally level 3-4.
The level 5/6 prisons are where the gang leaders, high value targets, extremely violent criminals, criminals who are good at escaping, etc go. Those people either go into an extra secure section inside the level 4 prison, or they get sent to a supermax. Thats my understanding.
Eh, odds are the US will leave the UN under Trump; you might see it happen then. If Russia doesn’t veto it.
The “problem,” such as there is one, is that if we didn’t treat criminals so terribly in the US then, logically, we’d have to treat people in general better. Even the worst criminals get a well-appointed apartment with a high definition television, exercise equipment, and, presumably, reasonable access to free healthcare? Well, shoot, I guess everyone should have that or else there’d be a perverse incentive for people to commit petty crimes (or worse! cf: Luigi Mangione) just to get access to the cool digs.
For the record, I am all for that. And tax the rich as much as needed to pay for it. But alas, I fear I am in the minority.
I do not have a cite (read this many years ago) but a prisoner in a Norwegian prison said they absolutely wanted to be out.
While the accommodations were decent they were still prisoners. No going out with friends. No going to the pub and so on.
They very much wanted to be out of the prison.They did not see it as a nice, free apartment.
If you want to be pedantic, jails are where you lock up a person before their trial or when they are serving a sentence of less than a year. Prisons are where you lock up a person who has been convicted and received a sentence of a year or more.
On a bigger issue. you are wrong about the focus of the American prison system. It is strongly focused on rehabilitation. Most rehabilitation programs have originated in the United States.
My ex is Norewgian speaking, I love that culture. My own is disturbingly totalitarian. Or wannabe totatalitarian
We do not have Super-Max stye prisons here in South Africa, though some are pretty brutal. But even our most infamous prison, Pollsmor, has a program where inmates run a restaurant that is open to the general public.
Entry is .. particularly for those of us who have committed unprosecuted crimes… interesting. Like 18m fences layered with razor wire.
They serve alcohol on occasion - you need to book that. I went there one day, but got turned away, when it was closed because convicts were clearing up after a wedding! Like, a venue, in a “supermax equivalent”, our highest security prison… hosted a wedding. Full on wedding, guests and booze. There is a conpsquious lock on the booze fridge.
Food is cheap but excellent. Would recommend. Maybe not for a wedding, though.
Actually, the prison you will commonly see on TV is Arthur Kill Correctional Facility. Or at least it was.
Arthur Kill was a medium security prison in Staten Island, NY. It closed in 2011. A private company bought the property and now rents it out as a set for film and television productions (Orange is the New Black, The Sinner, Blindspot, Ocean’s 8, Brawl in Cell Block 99, Neon Joe, The Good Cop, Daredevil, Escape From Dannemora, Quantico, Bull, The Code, Ray Donovan, The Black List).
Lol, i had no idea those were all set in a real prison.
We inspected a place like that. It was surrounded by a high chain link fence with razor wire on top. However, during the day, the gate was open (there were cameras). At night the gate was locked. This one was a youth facility, but I was informed other minimum security places are like that. It was also out in the boonies.
Thats interesting. I wonder if there was an old prison that was used before 2011 for films like that.