I am continually amazed how people make gross assumptions about others based simply on their gender, and often general conversations devolve into “the boys against the girls”. After watching some of these ‘Survivor’ episodes where some of the women made a big deal about beating the guys in certain events or sticking together, I couldn’t help but think, “WHY???”
Yes, men and women have their differences. So what? Is there some sort of instinctual urge to group by gender against the other? I understand the need to interact with people who you feel can relate to you, and sometimes it’s all in good fun, but when it gets to be serious or a power struggle, I have to wonder what people’s motivations are, as that makes little sense to me.
I am generally of the opinion that such “gender wars” are tantamount to racism or bigotry. Or is it all biological/sexual play that is built into the species?
(Please note that I am fully aware of the debates surrounding sexual discrimination, “glass ceilings”, etc. While those are related topics, I’d like to consider situations outside the workplace.)
I have never watched the show so I don’t specifically know the circumstance to which you are refering to in that regard. From what I have read and heard about it, it hardly seems like a realistic setting or circumstance so I would not be easily persuaded to believe that it accurately portrays society. I mean the entire premise is rediculous. If you are tired of being a “survivor” just act like an ass for a while until everyone get’s possed off at you and votes you back to the all-inclusive hotel. Hell, if only the crew of the SS Minow could have figured out that trick… but I digress…
People have gathered and polarized along different lines and gender is probably the most basic and obvious or those. Gender roles have existed probably as long as… well… gender differences. Taken to extremes, this kind of stratification is almost always a bad thing. On the other hand, people talk about male and female role models on a regular basis. Emulation of those role models leads one to identify with them and to some degree understand what society (of your given era) expects of you. Note: I am speaking in broad generalities here so don’t paint me as some kind of narrow minded biggot.
To clarify, I was only using ‘Survivor’ as an example that others are probably aware of, rather than "a group of my friends were talking and…
[The topic was supposed to be ‘Why do we still have “gender wars”?’ but I apparently lost everything after the quotes when I did the preview. I’ve asked Gaudere to correct this…]
This seems similar to a previous thread in which the “us vs. them” mindset of people was discussed. People usually think their group (whatever it may be…town/state/country) is better than others & draw strength from the perceived superiority. The gender war is probably another example of that. I wonder if its instinctual or learned behavior (probably a bit of both like everything else about human behavior).
> I am generally of the opinion that such “gender wars” are tantamount to racism or bigotry.
First, I believe gender refers to words, not people.
I think “war” is way too strong a term- men & women aren’t generally trying to kill each other as a general rule.
Part of the problem is political correctness, & the ridiculous idea that the only difference between males & females is their reproductive organs. This is not to say that one sex is better than the other, just that they’re different. As a male, I tend to think like other males, & the same is true of females. This is just human nature. Since I don’t think like a female, it’s harder for me to understand them.
> I am continually amazed how people make gross assumptions about others based simply on their gender
Such as what? We make assumptions based on many things, & sex is just one of them.
I’m more amazed at seeing statements like “Men & women are different” touted as if they’re some new discovery.
warn. 2b: a struggle or competition between opposing forces or for a particular end <a class war> <a war against disease>
So there, Mr. Nitpicker.
I do not want to get into specific examples of how people rip each other apart some times; but if you haven’t seen these heated arguments on occasion, you haven’t been paying attention.
But this…
…is one of things I’m talking about. It’s the kind of nonsensical thing you hear frequently.
I certainly don’t think I presented it that way, if that’s what you’re implying. But certainly no intelligent person would present that fact as a new discovery–it seems more likely they would be attempting to counter the position that women and men don’t function differently.
First off, I want to clarify I know you weren’t drawing this as your ultimate conclusion, so do not take this as if I was attacking your position.
This is going to seem like The Attack of the 50 Foot Straw Man, but the “human nature” part of your quote so reminds me of Nuremburg, the recent mini-series on TNT. The psychologist was attempting to understand what led normal Germans to participate in the Holocaust, and one of the main conclusions was that German society is very rigid; basically that authorities are never questioned.
I think to blame actions on “human nature” is much the same as blaming the Holocaust on rigid adherence to authority. Individuals choose to commit their actions–blaming human nature is such a cop-out. So is peer pressure.
We will continue to have so-called gender wars as long as the dominant religious paradigm insists on one sex being subordinate to another. Somewhere in the past the idea of male and female turned into male vs. female. A great deal of evidence suggests that in early societies, there was a division of labor and power between the sexes, but no indication that one was in any way superior to the other. Warrior cults, hairy thundering gods, and the ideological position that the ability to kill was more important than to birth changed that several thousand years ago, and alas, still holds sway in much of the world. If people could just get it into thier heads that you can have two or more different sexes, lifestyles, opinions, whatever, without one having to be superior to the other. Okay, putting down the talking conch now.
Why do we have a gender war? Because many people have inflexible ideas of what gender roles must be. Women can (or perhaps worse, “should”) do this. Men can do this. Woman are this way. Men are this way.
Gender, by nature and nurture, has disparities which create broad and general tendencies. Women tend to cooperate. Men tend to compete. Women tend to focus on relational details. Men tend to focus on discrete items. Etcetera ad nauseum. In societies, these tendencies become codified into gender roles which limit the behavior of men and women who defy those generalizations. These roles tend to make societies work more efficiently, but this is at the sacrifice of the comfort and happiness of those who don’t fit into those specific roles.
Add to this the very human and regrettable trait of putting different people in a box labeled “them” and kicking it around. If you’re not a man, then you are placed in the “not man, them” box. If you’re not a woman, you get dropped into the “not woman, them” box. The kicking around then commences.
Compounding this is the regrettable, historical context of male domination. If you think I’m talking out of my PC ass, please take a moment to remember which gender the Christian church spent nearly 2000 years blaming for Original Sin. Look up which Constitutional amendment gave women the right to vote and note how many years that came after the abolition of slavery and the suffrage of Black men. Check the lawbooks and see how many states, during the 20th century, were of the opinion that it was completely legal for a man to force his wife to have sex.
At this point, I’m amazed gender warfare isn’t astronomically worse. Most people want to get along. Most people, whether they think “men and women are different” or “it’s just plumbing”, are convinced that men and women should be afforded equal rights.
I’ve heard this a lot but I don’t see how any can think men don’t tend to cooperate. Hunting parties needed to cooperate in order to bring home the bacon and your house couldn’t have been built without cooperation. In short just about everything a man does, even sports, involves cooperation of one kind or another. Even individualized sports such as wrestling, boxing, or martial arts requires that one cooperates with at least one coach.
What men are good at it setting up a heiarchy and following a leader. You don’t bring down a doe with spears by committee. You need a leader who makes decisions that everyone immediatly follows. On the positive side we have houses and automobiles. War is probably the worst aspect of human cooperation.
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But men dominated much longer then 2,000 years. The Greeks didn’t exactly respect women nor did the Chinese and neither of them had original sin pushed on them.
I’d like to hope that in the future, historians will look back and at least note that we as a society started questioning all those assumptions we were handed from earlier ages. Gender Wars are one thing that can fade into the past.
Maybe Guys thought hunting was better, so Men were better. We’ve evolved our society way beyond that concept. I know we do have a ways to go, it’s hard for women to accept men can be Stay at Home Dads (SAHD).
On a related note… Last night I was reading Genome by Matt Ridley, and in the chapter about X and Y chromosomes, he mentions an antagonism between the sex determination genes themselves. The theory goes that the Y chromosome became so small because it was trying to avoid being targeted for elimination by the more numerous X. IIRC it stated there is a particular species of insect that is 97% female because there is gene on the X chromosome that creates a “poison” to selectively destroy Y sperm.
It also mentioned that in certain fruit fly species seminal fluid can contain proteins that go to the brain and affect female behavior, making them less likely to mate again. The X chromosome can selectively adapt to counter this effect. However, when scientists bred 30 generations of flies with these competing genes and then mated them with control females that had no such resistance, the seminal fluid could actually kill the females.
Perhaps the term “war” is even more appropriate than I thought…
