Sorry, I don’t believe in paranormal stuff, so I think I’d have a pretty poor chance of presenting this as paranormal to anyone. I also no longer have any of the watches that didn’t work, although I kept one of them on my dresser for years. (It was an old watch, not one with a battery, ran fine as long as I wasn’t wearing it, and before that it ran fine while my grandmother wore it for many years.)
You don’t have to believe it’s paranormal–that’s up for Randi’s organization to decide. But the fact is, the way you’ve described it, it is paranormal, so what you’re saying is the equivalent of “I don’t believe in paranormal stuff but I think I have ESP.”
If you think you still have the talent, isn’t a million bucks worth going out and buying another cheap watch that demonstrates the effect?
It’s not ESP. I don’t have ESP, it doesn’t exist.
I punish my watches terribly because a) I am hyperhydrotic and sweat like a stevedore, and b) I am left-handed and prefer wearing my watches on the left wrist, so I end up buckling them on right-handed and dropping them. I’ve had floppy hands, gummed-up stems, broken-off stems whose replacements never worked right, a dozen or more cracked crystals, and probably a hundred or more rotted leather bands.
Sorry, that was intended as an analogy, not a paraphrase (i.e., the quotes weren’t supposed to imply that they were your words).
Let’s try another, real-world example. Randi’s organization (the JREF) has tested many “water diviners”. These people claim to find underground water (or other materials) using simple devices such as a pair of sticks or a pendulum. Generally speaking, these people do not believe they have a paranormal ability–they ascribe their abilities to gravity, or magnetism, or some other physical process. But in fact their claims are paranormal, because the laws of physics don’t work in the way they describe, and so the JREF is happy to test them.
Of course, under controlled conditions, water diviners fail miserably, and as expected do no better than chance. The JREF has probably tested dozens of them, and sadly, none are ever convinced that they have no actual ability–they simply believe they had an off day (to their credit, and to the credit of the JREFs ability to be objective, few to none have complained about poor test conditions).
So: you may not believe your abilities are paranormal, but the JREF almost certainly will. If you really are convinced you can do what you say, I heartily recommend finding a watch that demonstrates the effect and winning the prize.
PS: I remain confused about one thing. You said “I don’t even know it’s a physical process”, implying that you think that a non-physical process is a possibility. A non-physical process is by definition paranormal (the words are almost perfect synonyms in this context), yet you also said “Sorry, I don’t believe in paranormal stuff”. Can you explain the discrepancy?
You are using physical process in a way I don’t think most people would. And I see no reason it has to be controlled in any way at all, conscious or unconscious.
And there’s no reason to do any of this if she can’t repeat the experiment herself first. There is indeed a large potential downside to all this: someone who doesn’t believe in woo is going to be treated like they do.
And once again, like water-witching, I wish that, instead of constantly claiming explanations, people would actually test them and see if they work. Without a proven way for the phenomena to work, you’re going to have a hard time convincing people. As people often say, you can’t prove a negative (even though you very well can).
Oh, and the JREF apparently has a bad definition of paranormal. If something were found, it would be evidence that the science is wrong, not that anything was paranormal. Science would then expand to include this, and it would be full-on “normal.” It makes me want to try various medications where we can’t figure out how they work. The entire point of science is that, if an experiment is in conflict with your theories, it is your theories that are wrong. (This, obviously, does not include human error. I mean a controlled experiment, obviously.)
Really? You may be right, but it seems obvious to me that a physical process is one that is described by the laws of physics.
Can you elaborate? As I said, I meant “control” in a fairly general sense–basically anything the body does at all that might have an effect. It’s possible it’s environmental of course, but HNS claimed that the key distinction is if the watch was on the wrist or not.
No doubt that she should try to repeat the experiment–I’ve suggested that all along. But from what I’ve seen and read of the JREFs investigations (including watching one in person), the latter point is not a huge problem. They’ve always been respectful of people, and in particular they understand very well the kinds of fallacies that people–all people–are prone to making. We all have the same brain bugs; the only difference is in how we overcome them.
That’s the entire point of the million dollar prize. They don’t expect to lose, of course. The purpose is to show that under proper controlled conditions, all of these types of claims dissolve into nothingness.
That said, the money exists and they are prepared to pay out if necessary. They’ve said that a million bucks is more than worth the advance in science resulting from a real discovery of this nature.
“Paranormal” is necessarily a somewhat subjective thing. It encompasses everything that is not only unknown to science, but is outside any reasonable extrapolation of science. Although some things clearly fit into one category or another, other stuff sits in a gray area of interpretation. So in terms of the prize, paranormal is whatever they agree to. In practice, this isn’t actually a problem since most of what they investigate is obvious woo.
Of course it is literally true that once a paranormal thing is properly investigated, it becomes no longer paranormal. That doesn’t mean it’s not a useful label before that point.
Some people might read ‘physical’ to mean ‘mechanical’ (as opposed to, say, electromagnetic) - maybe that’s what is confounding this discussion.
I have the same problem and never found an explanation; now it’s getting even worst and weird! I’m 51 y.o. portuguese guy, my grandfather was a watchmaker, had a shop with many famous brands and he could never give a watch to me or to my mother (suffers the same problem) that works properly, they were always ahead or delayed, sometimes until madness! In the seventies the liquid crystal watches were popular, i had one but it didn’t last for too long; after a couple of months the numbers in the display disappeared; i assumed the battery was off so i bought a new one. It worked for a couple of weeks but the same problem happened and so i put the watch in an drawer locker. Every time i opened it the watch was working and i started to use it again until it stops; call me stupid but it was the first time i realized the watch just doesn’t work with… ME! After that i tried other kind of watches but the result was always the same; from my experience i can tell you this: the thinner the watch is the quicker it brakes. Now: the problem is not only with wrist watches but with all clocks around me. Years ago i started to notice a constant delay in the time shown in the clocks of computers and the cars i have; i establish a pattern: 10 minutes in three months for all of them!!! Cell phones (always had Nokias) same story until now: i have an iPhone and last year didn’t show any malfunction with the clock. Among PCs and Macs, same story of 10 minutes delay in three months but now, after 2 years of good work the clock of my iMac starts to… go ahead! And it goes ahead… 10 minutes in three months for the last 6 months, until now two times. That’s why i was searching the net for some explanation this is a freaking story, i found nothing except this forum… For all who experience this, no need to say that friends and people in general say that’s impossible in scientific terms (thanks a lot i know that) and some start to think why do i “make up this story”: do i need attention, do i need to make myself special with a bizarre story? Do i have a twisted ego? At 51 years old i don’t care anymore with that but everytime i need to set the clocks i remember this “little crazy thing” about me. Three months ago i wondered if there’s a club, society or any institution that studies these things but only now i really googled to look for an answer. Thanx
triple zombie or no
i had a portable sundial as a youth, it worked great. they can be purchased at camping or outdoor stores.
I’ve had the same problem. I took the last couple apart to see what happened. They were corroded inside, like they had been soaked with sweat.
Listen, I’m just as cynical as the next person, if not more so. There’s always an explanation, but…
I’m sitting here and I see a commercial for a watch that I would like and realize that I can’t buy it because they always stop on me, which prompted me to do a google on the subject, which brought me to this board. Mind you, I’ve not worn a watch in at least two decades. Don’t know what technological changes have happened in the interim.
As far back as I can remember, watches would stop working on me within two days. Once I would take the watch off and put it away, next time I looked at it, it would be working again. The last time I bought a watch was in my mid 20s (I’m now 47), and I decided to spend a little extra $$$ on the watch thinking it would be a different outcome. It wasn’t.
I’m paraphrasing, but calling people attention-seeking freaks because they, too, have had this occur to them is the epitome of narrow-mindedness. I don’t know the reason for this happening to certain people, but I’m sure there’s a reasonable explanation, and I, for one, am quite curious as to what it is.
As far as other electronics, I don’t know. I seem to have bad luck with printers, but I’m sure it’s my impatience that’s the problem.
No one here has called someone else an attention-seaking freak.
Looking at the available anecdotes, I don’t think there is a reasonable explanation, I think there are many, in combination:
Pick one or more from the first set and one or more from the second:
A) Buys crappy watches
B) Sweats a lot while wearing non-water resistant watches
C) Treats watches roughly
D) Forgets to change batteries
E) Takes watches to hack watchmakers for repair
- Confirmation bias. “My watches always stop, (except when they don’t).”
- Exaggeration bias. “My watches stop immediately, (as far as I can remember).”
- Life on the tail end of the bell curve. Your experiences are one in a million or ten million or one hundred million and there are billions of watch wearers.
Yeah. I knew a dude who used to claim that he had the worst luck with cars. I asked him when he last had the oil changed, and he said that was all a scam, you didn’t need to that maintenance crap, just add oil.:eek::rolleyes:
Just to support the “you can’t over-wind a watch” assertion - the guy in the watch repair shop down the block told me this, too. He even asked me to wind my watch in front of him, and when I stopped he asked me why. When I told him I was afraid of over-winding it, he said you can’t do that. Basically, the spring winds up tight and can’t wind any more. The only way to damage a watch by winding would seem to be to take a pair of pliers to the winder and twist it until the stem breaks. So, if a watch stops, it’s not because it’s over-wound.
I was unable to wear watches for years. They would stop working after a short time, despite new batteries or wearing a new watch. Computers would malfunction, etc etc. The list goes on. Check if you have metal based fillings in your mouth. Especially if you have two different types of metal (eg gold and silver mercury amalgams). The two different metals, along with the salt in your saliva cause an electrical flow in your mouth. I discovered I was a walking battery! You may also want to research silver mercury amalgams, which are up to 60% mercury (a neurotoxin!)
If your fillings were making you a living battery, you would become aware of it straight away by means of the unbearable tingling sensation in your mouth. Don’t feel that? Not a battery.
As a watch collector I find this fascinating. I’m also very suspicious.
A couple things…
Exactly who is buying watches that wind now a days?
I get the impression some people are confusing analog watches with wind up watches. Virtually all watches that are sold now are quartz watches. These can be analog (with hands) or digital (LCD) or both. These use batteries. While there are some brands niche products that are still wind up - I don’t think the are very common. I could be wrong and there might be some low end brand that still does this, but in general I think all the major ones are quartz.
As someone else pointed out - there are mechanical watches that are “automatic watches”. They use the motion of the wrist to wind the watch. These are more common for men than for women - due to the size of the movement. MOST expensive watches that are sold are automatic watches. Omega and Rolex for example. If you do not wear your watch all the time - or are somewhat inactive - it is possible/probable for the watch to “die”. If you then take it off your wrist - shake it - it will restart (depending on watch and how much you shake it). You have recharged it for a tiny bit longer. Put it back on your wrist and it will die again in a few minutes. Watches like this have like a 36 - 60 hour (usually) power reserve. They actually sell automatic winders to keep these watches charged when not on the wrist (basically spin the watches). Due to the price of most of these - I do not think these would be causing the problem - as people wouldn’t keep buying multi thousand dollar watches (yes you can get some for a hundred or so - but they aren’t usually advertised as much). But it is an explanation for some people at least some of the time.
Magnetic fields would be another. Rolex, IWC, and Omega (and I’m sure others) sell anti-magnetic watches. The Rolex is called the Milgauss and Omega just came out with this one…
I couldn’t find the cite right now, but I believe I read Omega claiming some significant (might have been ~20%) of the watches they get for repair (in one country) are due to magnetic fields. In the watch ads/reviews for these products - MRI machines are listed as a potential hazard. I haven’t really heard of people that needed their watches degaussed, but it is supposed to be an issue for people in some fields (no pun intended). I am not sure if this effects mechanical more than quartz. A symptom is supposed to be watch slowing down. In theory it could be something as simple as an overly strong refrigerator magnet (for the seal).
Time keeps on slippin’, slippin’, slippin’ Into the future.
Time keeps on slippin’, slippin’, slippin’ Into the future
Especially on old threads.
My Omega Speedmaster Automatic certainly had that problem. I had been using some strong neodymium magnets and the watch started keeping very poor time (off by >1 min per day). They repaired the watch under warranty. I wonder, though, if they noticed the problem and replaced the spring with an anti-magnetic one, because I’ve continued to work with magnets (a little more carefully, but not much more so) and I haven’t had a problem since. Maybe they decided that avoiding future returns was worth a small extra cost.