Why does castrating yourself make you ineligible to be a Priest?

From the First Council of Nicæa (A.D. 325

“I never held with Origen. Besides, it hurt my great-toe most confoundedly!”

A shiny new dime to the Doper who places that! :slight_smile:

Most likely because even the early Church recognized that lobbing your own walnuts off was pretty fucked up, and would make even the LORD wince and say, ‘Dude, WTF?’ Just a guess.

Why Jurgen did the manly thing

Just a WAG, but I’d guess it’s because a priest who castrated himself was A. mutilating God’s creation and working against God’s will and B. cutting himself off (no pun intended) from God’s Gift of celibacy. If one is incapable of meeting the trial of sexual arousal with the church approved methods, then one is not worthy of remaining clergy. Refusing God’s Gift is tantamount to blasphemy.

It’s nice to see that they were considerate enough to allow those castrated against their will to remain clergy, however. More than I would have expected, but it’s in line with the WAGs above. If it wasn’t the priest’s weakness, but actions outside his control, then he cannot be held responsible in the same manner.

I’d pay good money to see a supreme being say “Dude, WTF?”

Dope 3
Chapter 12
37
And Jesus saw that the man had
removed his nuts. And Jesus said
“Yo pop, check that out”
38
Looking upon the sight of
the man who Had Castrated Himself
God said “Dude, What the Fuck?”
39
This man who wanted to join
the flock was hereafter prevented
from joining the fold.
40
Looking at this man, The Lord
said “That shit is whack, yo!”
41
Jesus Wept.

Seriously, there was an OT law that prevented a castrated man from even entering the temple, IIRC. It probably stems from that somehow.

I would actually hazard the guess it relates to the priesthood of one of the eastern religions castrating themselves [though IIRC by the time it got legalized in Roma Eterna they were substituting mock castration instead of the real deal] and early christianity frequently made rules against anything remotely pagan in origen. It is 0230 and I am way to tired to google which proesthood it was, but they had a big celebration that had a precession and sacrificed bulls, followed by the ceremonial whackingsoff of the acolytes members.

The priests of Cybele were the most prominent practitioners of self-castration.

"Cybele begins life as Agdisthus, a hermaphroditic God/dess. Because Agdisthus scared the other gods, Dionysos snuck up on the sleeping Agdisthus and tied the Agdisthus’ penis to a tree. When Agdisthus woke up, the phallus engorged, and sudden movement severed it. Rather than crippling Agdisthus, this act changes her/him into Cybele, the great mother of the gods.

A pomegranate tree grew up from Agdisthus’ blood, and when a river nymph named Nana ate a pomegranate from the tree, she became pregnant and gave birth to Attis, who then becomes Cybele’s lover. "

Myth of Cybele

“In 204 B.C.E the goddess Cybele was brought to Rome from Pessinus in the form of a meteorite. This was prompted by the threat posed by Hannibal’s presence in Italy and the answers both of the Sibylline Books and the oracle of Delphi. She was welcomed as a national goddess by virtue of Rome’s supposed Trojan roots. However, Cybele brought with her Attis and her priests, the Galli. Roman sensibilities were shocked by the ecstatic frenzies during which worshipers were possessed to castrate themselves. Until the reign of Claudius these and other disturbing practices were ‘contained’ through various measures. In this manner the Romans tried to deal with the problem of a national goddess with very ‘oriental’ features to her worship. Cybele was revered while Attis was reviled.”

From this page

Bingo. There were two choices for a cleric: marry before ordination, or celibacy and continence. Self-castration, like suicide, is taking the easy way out and harming or killing one’s body as well.

That must have been hellacious morning wood.

IIRC what the law actually does is forbid any self-castrated man from marrying a Jewish woman. I know Zev has addressed this in detail in somethreadoranother.

Back To The OP

I thought Matthew 19:12 Says “. . . have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. . . . He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.”

Matthew 19:12 - For there are eunuchs who were born - Bible Gateway,

Huh, a quick check of other sites indicates that the passage is often translated “renounced marriage”

Anybody in this thread speak Greek?

I believe that part of the answer is pragmatism. If castration is viewed as a holy state, you end up with too many followers removing their own gonads. That slows the spread of Christianity, and could even end it (There is a good reason why the Quakers are still around and the Shakers are not). A priest must act as an example. If despite his vows making his testes unnecessary, he still retained them, then the congregation would know that they can enter the kingdom of heaven with functioning genitalia. The clergy could then direct the faithful to those passages about being fruitful and multiplying.

The word in question is definitely “eunuchs” (or the Greek for it, which I don’t happen to know). But several reliable commentaries say that it was accurate Koiné to use it metaphorically, meaning either ‘celibate mysogynist’ or ‘homosexual’ (by inclination), not the literal meaning of “gonadless.”

Neat trick. How do you do that?

Google “self castration” and you will learn far more than you ever wanted to know.

And apparently, it’s catching on!

Whoops. I begin to suspect that the article I linked to may have been a spoof. I’m still unsure, frankly. If it is, my apologies.

The fact that one of the people mentioned in the article is named “Judy O’Christian” should’ve clued you in.

Well, that and 1,087 men spontaneously self-castrating after hearing what must’ve been one heck of an inspirational sermon.

But wasn’t it the Vatican that started the Castrati? How do they justify that?

I just gotta chime in and say that reading this thread is making my gonads hurt…

and I have indoor plumbing.

Yeouch.

Two things to remember about the castrati:

  1. They weren’t usually clerics.
  2. They weren’t self-castrated – they were castrated as children, before puberty set in. By the time they would be old enough to make the decision for their own, it would be too late for the procedure to be of any use.