I’ve finally done some reading up on the issue, and it sounds like Leno was the rightful heir to the show - he filled in a bunch for Carson, and was way more accessible and nonthreatening than Letterman, who (let’s face it) constantly comes off as a real asshole, esp. in interviews.
Something to do with “hanging chads” IIRC.
I think Carson saw Letterman as his rightful heir (a scenario boltered by the recent revelation that he had been sending jokes to Letterman up until he died).
There’s a book called The Late Shift that’s supposed to be a very good description of this situation. I haven’t read it, but did see the HBO movie based on the book, and the suggestion was that Leno’s manager pushed out Johnny Carson. Also the movie suggested that Letterman never campaigned for the Tonight Show job.
It has been awhile since I’ve seen the movie, but as I recall, at the time Johnny announced his retirement, Jay had a contract with NBC to be the guest host of The Tonight Show for at least a couple of years beyond Johnny’s last show. Leno’s agent (wonderfully played by Kathy Bates in the movie) made certain that breaking that contract (by giving the show to Dave) would be very expensive for the network. So the best that NBC could offer Dave was for Jay to have Tonight Show and Dave stay in the Late Night slot until Leno’s contract expired, and at that point have a “re-compete” for the job. Dave smartly chose not to languish at the 12:30 time slot while Jay established himself at 11:30 and decided to jump to CBS instead.
As has been noted, Johnny prefered Dave over Jay and I’m sure Dave felt that Johnny’s blessing was all that he required to get the chair. Why it didn’t quite work out that way makes for a very entertaining story…
The movie substantially agrees with the book about this. Letterman was widely thought of around NBC as both brilliant and a pain in the ass. There were doubts that he could move from Late Night to the more mainstream 11:30 slot.
Leno was seen as funny, easy to work with, and proven at 11:30. Plus, he had a barracuda manager who badgered the network into agreeing that Leno would succeed Carson.
Negotiations with both were handled badly. Letterman had always felt that his 8 years on Late Night had been an on-air audition for the Tonight Show, and that he had earned the job. He was especially upset that no one from NBC had even spoken to him until after the deal with Leno was announced. For his part, Leno felt that the deal had been done, and that NBC was hanging him out to dry. He started doing jokes about “NBC - Never Believe your Contract.”
Carson never suggested a preference for one over the other. While it was always believed he felt Letterman to be a protegee, Carson refused to say anything against Leno. It’s likely that if he had ever tilted one way or another, the issue would have been resolved right there.
CBS had initially courted Leno while he was Carson’s substitute. That’s how Leno’s manager was able to extract NBC’s promise. When the storm broke, CBS was smart enough to realize that either host would be a tremendous improvement over what they had. They were content to let NBC tear itself up over the decision, while letting both stars know they would be welcome at CBS.
On one of the many shows I’ve seen talking about The Tonight Show in the past few days, somebody said that Leno went around the country attending all the fancy parties thrown by NBC affiliates and providing entertainment. This put the affiliates strongly in Leno’s corner as the replacement host, because they knew him and liked him.
I defer to your knowledge, but I recall allegations that Leno’s agent allegedly pushed Carson from his throne–and Carson felt similarly. Johnny, it was widely reported, planned on finishing out his 30? years on the Tonight Show, but Leno’s scheming combined with the NBC executives’ realization that the network could save millions annually convinced them to nudge Carson. Once Carson got wind of their preferences, his sense of dignity took over and he decided to hell with them. In short, history repeats itself. Today NBC, looking to its future, has essentially placed Leno on notice that he will leave Tonight Show within 5 years, making way for O’Brien and a new advertising demographic.
All of this, IIRC, explains why Carson would never so much as acknowledge Leno, once Carson left. Didn’t help that, on his opening night, Leno didn’t so much as thank Carson for handing him the reigns.
He may have sent jokes to Letterman because his production company produces Letterman’s show.
No, it doesn’t. Worldwide Pants is owned by Letterman.
Maybe I have the semantics wrong but in all the Johnny Carson tributes it’s been stated a couple times that Johnny’s company has something to do with Letterman’s show.
You’re right. IMDB lists Carson Productions as one of the three companies that had produced Late Night with David Letterman.
Except that the show you link to is no longer on the air. I believe you need to check this link, which is for Letterman’s current CBS show. Carson Productions is not on the list.
That is why I thought Johhny Carson wanted Letterman - money. Carson Productions was the production company for “Late Night With David Letterman”. I’m guessing that if NBC chose Letterman as the successor, Carson Productions would have had a part in the deal to move Letterman to the 11:30 slot and would have remained the production company when Letterman took over “The Tonight Show”.
Although its been over ten years (EKK!) but I did read The Late Shift. As I recall:
Leno’s agent, the infamous Helen Kushnick, pressured NBC into secrectly signing a deal that guaranteed Jay The Tonight Show whenever Johnny retired. She made them do this by threatening to have Jay jump to CBS immediately otherwise. So NBC agreed, not thinking that Johnny was going to retire for at least a few more years, not wanting to lose Leno as permanent guest host, and, well, they’d deal with the Dave/Jay thing later.
That same week at the yearly affiliates meeting Carson surprised NBC by announcing that he would be retiring the following May. It was no mistake that Johnny sprung this on them because he knew he was being pushed out, plus NBC never asked for any of his input as to who should replace him. So he was a bit pissed.
Sooooo, that same day, after leaving the meeting Johnny did a surprise walk-on on Letterman’s show and did a not so subtle bit where he gave Dave a giant check saying he’d won that sweepstakes that McMahon plugs. In essense he was passing the torch to Dave. Of course neither of them knew about the already done deal NBC had made with Jay.
NBC was now screwed. Jay had a signed, sealed contract. He was now the new host of the Tonight Show. They didn’t really want to offend Dave (or Carson) that much but they had no choice. So that’s what was announced.
After Letterman hired Michael Ovitz as his agent and had a firm offer from CBS and Jay was still struggling as the new Tonight Show host NBC made a rather fishy offer to give it to Dave in one year. Maybe. Ovitz pointed out that this was just NBC jerking him around again and covering their asses. If Jay couldn’t make Tonight work, Bam!, they’d have Letterman right there to take over. But if in a year Jay was successful (which he was) NBC would find some way to weasel out again. Or if not, they’d make it look like Dave was stealing the show from a struggling Jay.
This is when Letterman made his famous call to Carson for advice, and Carson said, “If NBC had treated me that way, I’d walk” which is what Dave wisely did.
As far as who deserved it, well Carson had more than enough money so I don’t think that motivated him at all. He and Dave were friends. He and Jay were not. They weren’t enemies be any means, they just had a respectful working relationship. And Carson (and a lot of others) thought that Dave was more talented the Leno.
Personally, I think it worked out perfectly. I understood why Dave wanted the Tonight Show. It was the absolute, undisputed king of talk shows. But it was also something of a glamourous, Hollywood, schmooze & plug-fest and Late Night w/ Letterman was most definitely NOT that. So in that sense it seemed much more appropriate to me that Leno host Tonight. He is a talented comedian, but he also plays the celebrity game very well, whereas Letterman doesn’t. At all. I wouldn’t have wanted to watch an LA-based, toned-down, glitzy Letterman-hosted Tonight Show. His CBS Late Show was exactly right. Still edgey & sarcastic, but just a little more polished around the edges.
So as to the OP, no, I don’t think its fair to say that Jay ‘stole’ the Tonight Show. He’s said that he wasn’t even aware how much Dave wanted it because Dave never said he did. Of course Dave feels it should have been obvious that he did. But I think that the ratings showed that NBC ultimately made the right choice for that job.
You’re absolutely right … Dave doesn’t kiss celebrity ass.
If that makes him an asshole, then I guess I prefer assholes to cloying celebrity suck-ups.
YMMV.
Maybe you know something I don’t, but I thought Leno chose when he was going to leave. He was the one who announced it anyway.
Leno is apparently getting a “Celine Dion” contract with a Vegas Casino after her retires that will pay him FAR more than he makes on the Tonight Show!
Which also reinforces the idea that as a result of the divorce, Jay got custody of the show, but Dave got custody of the man.
I think it might have been possible for Letterman to streamline his approach enough to work as the host of the Tonight Show…he wanted it, and figured, probably like anyone outside the world of contracts, that Johnny knighting him to the position was a good possibility. The under-the-table aspects of Kushnick’s deal were all that knocked him out. Sure, NBC ultimately would have picked the host, but had anybody actually asked Johnny what he thought, things may have turned out much differently.
Good Midwestern boy that he was, Dave would never have been so obvious as to angle for the job while the king was on the throne. Which also probably explains why Johnny would write jokes and send them along to Dave and not Jay.
It’ll be interesting to hear Dave’s take on all this when he comes back to the air and out of the reruns this week.
Yeah I understand - that was why I spelled out the name of the NBC show. Leading up to the passing of the torch, Carson’s company was involved in Letterman’s show and would likely have benefited if Dave got the job.