Why does homosexuality elicit a violent reaction from some people?

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Well, thanks. Always nice to know when people are provoked to consider different outlooks based on my arguments. I’m a bit flattered.

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I’ve seen the same studies, but the problem I see with them is that it’s extremely difficult to contoll for outside socializing factors, such as peer groups, and media influence. Twins may share the same genetics, but there’s no guarantee that they’ll share exactly the same experiences, have the same friends, or watch the same movies. Some of the twins I have known have been incredibly different. One may be quiet and timid, where the other is outgoing and rambunctious. They may like/hate completely different things.

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I’m sorry, but I still disagree, having not seen enough supporting evidence from reliable research.

Research is a funny thing. As I said before, it is difficult to control for all outside factors. A lot of studies have underlying fundemental atributional errors, and often don’t supply enough data to reveal these flaws to the causal viewer. The researchers publish their results, and sometimes they’re reported in the media as gospel, only to be dispelled by another study a few months later.

As an example, take the recent study on diabetics and smoking. The results published asserted that smoking diabetics were more at risk for certain complications. However, it was not mentioned if the study had controlled for the fact that smokers may be casual in other aspects of their health, such as diet and excersize. Another example is the initial study that claimed that wine is good for your heart. But what wasn’t discussed is if whether wine-drinkers, who tend to be more affluent than beer drinkers, had other lifestyle factors which could lead to improved heart health, such as a better diet, better medical care, and a more active lifestyle. I have not read the entire text of the studies in question; I’m only referring to facts which were publicized in the media.

**

Yes, good point. As * Law and Order * put it: “If 85% of criminals chew gum, can we then conclude that gum chewing causes crime?”

To a certain extent, it is natural for humans (and other social animals) to establish a pecking order in which some must be the outcasts. Creatures higher on the pecking order can feel more secure and superior in having someone to look down on, and despise. “No matter what, at least I’m not________.” If a person is “different” and publicly acknowledges this difference, it’s easier to identify a potential social “reject.” They can comfortably be scapegoated and reviled.

Humans love to hate, especially in groups. People who would never identify themselves as racist will sometimes find themselves “going along with the group,” especially if the members of the group are people which are close to the subject, or whose respect and esteem the subject wants/needs to keep.

Throughout time, Jews, blacks, “witches” and other minority groups have been sacrificed to this group solidarity urge. Earlier in this century, for example, a black man was lynched. A member of the mob later wrote that even as the man was being tortured and killed, they knew he had done no crime, but the mob frenzy of hate and mass hysteria took over.

In the animal kingdom, there always seems to be one member of the pack who is the punching bag for the rest of the group. In apes, this member is always the last to eat, is rarely groomed by other members of the group, is the last selected as a mate, and sometimes is refused access to the other members’ sleeping area. Often times, researchers can find no visable clues as to why this particular ape has been chosen as the scapegoat, or reject. They may display no weakness, or timidity which could explain the reaction of the others, other than the fact that it appears that in all social groups an Omega is needed in the hirearchy.

It’s fascinating to watch a group of children establish this order, and predjudices can be quickly instilled in kids, as demonstrated by the famous blue-eyed/brown-eyed study. Jane Elliott, teacher/sociologist, performed an experiment in which she began to discriminate against the blue-eyed children, and encouraged brown-eyed children to disciminate against them as well. She told them that children with blue eyes are lazy, dishonest, and of low intelligence. The brown-eyed kids picked up on this quickly, and soon the blue-eyed children were despised and abused by their peers.

I guess i will enlighten you:

Gay Pride Parades are the #1 reason people hate Homosexuals.

Fags dancing around in their bondage,being lewd and disgusting,prancing down main street for the world to see.

This is what you call forced integration.

Forced integration causes the majority of hate crimes in our society today.

For instance in a quiet town near my house in texas, there is no crime, no noise, people own large plots of land and have very nice houses.

The NAACP has filed a lawsuit against them.Why? Because they refuse to put up “afforable housing for minorities”.

This has sparked a very violent response from the people, force feeding people anything pisses them off.

My personal thoughts are this: Homosexuality is the crowning acheivement of natural selection, the ultimate form of darwinism.
It is a problem that solves itself thanks to V.D’s like aids.

Hum… I wonder, then, how you might explain the hatred for gays which existed prior to the first ever gay pride parade, when the vast majority of gay people were closeted?

As far as I know, my city has never had a Gay Pride Parade, yet I can assure you there are people here who hate homosexuals.

Second, can I please get a cite for the statement that in the town you mentioned, "there is no crime, no noise, people own large plots of land and have very nice houses. " You see, you’ve described the way my hometown percieves itself to a T, but that description does not match the reality.

Third, are you aware that some people describe “lewd behaviour” between homosexuals as such things as holding hands or having dinner together?

Finally, in addition to Gay Pride Parades, what else has led to you disliking homosexuals?

CJ

So, how do you feel about Mardi Gras parades? Or the ones on St. Patrick’s Day?

Oscar Wilde = Victim of Gay Pride.

Oh, the things you learn on the internet. :smiley:

Julie

Well, heck, that’s how I got recruited! :smiley:

And still, you neglect to provide any documentation or research supporting your POV.

You are conflating “incest” (any form of sexual relations between relatives that a specific culture considers to be “too closely related”) with “incest” (sexual relations between a parent/other much older relative and a child). While all the second are within the first, not all the first are within the second.

For example, it is possible in a given culture for it to be “incest” for a man to have sex with a paternal second cousin but not “incest” for him to have sex with a maternal first cousin. The only potentially “universal” form of taboo behavior is sex within the core family unit (which is sometimes called a “nuclear family”).

Research on the Kibbutzim has revealed a great deal about the mechanics of incest taboo. The Kibbutzim were a generation of children brought up in a communal social environment in Israel–the Kibbutz. Everything possible was done on a group basis. While the parents were out working, all the children were watched by Kibbutz daycare specialists and Kibbutz teachers. Thus, they spent nearly all their time together.

It appears that, for humans, there very well may be a strong biological component and a strong social component. The parents of the Kibbutzim tried very hard to present intra-Kibbutz marriage (but still not violating Jewish incest rules) as an ideal. Every effort was made to socialize children in favor of it.

Very few Kibbutzim married within their Kibbutz. Indeed, this was so rare that the Kibbutzes were eventually disbanded. The Kibbutzim said that marrying within the Kibbutz felt like incest, even though they were not biologically related to each other.

So, even in the face of strong attempts to socialize children in favor of marrying other Kibbitzim, when the correct “trigger” states for incest were reached, the people had each other marked as “siblings”, even though their society tried to tell them that they weren’t “siblings” and should marry each other.

I was specifically referring to father-daughter/mother-son and sibling incest. The parent-child incest has the power/dominance component to which I was referring. Unless there is a significant age gap between siblings, this power/dominance structure is absent, and the “incest taboo” kicks in to prevent mating.

Matings between cousins have seemingly been a grey area throughout history. In European royalty, cousin marriages were the norm, but required a papal dispensation. Many cultures have no problem with cousin marriages, and generally, there aren’t many genetic consequences to the offspring, at least, not often enough to make the practice unnatractive. So, I would not necessarily paint cousin marriage with the “incest” brush.

In the animal kingdom, it would be difficult to keep track of cousins. Mostly, the incest taboo seems to apply to the nuclear family, bother/sister, mother/father. As with humans, there generally aren’t enough genetic consequences to make the cousin mating a big problem. But, in tightly knit social groups, such as apes, sisters may share in the care of one sibling’s offspring, and it seems that this care makes the offspring unnatractive as a mate. In less tightly knit groups, it can be easy to lose track of who is a cousin, and who is not.

The story you told about the Kibbutz is interesting. My guess is that since the children were raised as siblings, that this is what triggered the incest taboo. We don’t necessarily have a similar practice to compare it to, other than day-care, but day-care is usually a brief time during the day, and the children come and go according to their parents’ needs. School is also relatively brief, and sharply delineated from “family time” at home.

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Would you feel the same if straight couples had been behaving in the same way? Is it only because the couples are gay that their “prancing and dancing” and their displays of affection become “lewd?”

**

Did someone put a gun to your head and force you to watch the parade?

Hate crimes are not caused by “forced integration,” but intolerance by ignorant, hate-filled people.

Hmmm. Interesting. But, ya know, VD existed in the STRAIGHT population long before AIDS struck the gay community. Ever hear of syphillis? The Renaisance era had a little something they called the “French Pox.”

By your logic, it seems like to me that nature was trying to rid itself of straights long before gays.

Despite Mesmart’s elequent delivery of a rebuttal, he has made a point for me. I cringe whenever the press covers these flamboyant and overblown national street fairs, (with my personal faviote being New York’s Halloween bash) Being a resident in a small town, this publicty only serves to intensifie the irritional hatred and danger for gays. As of a week ago a friend of mine was beaten pretty severly by the police, basically for expressing that is was well within his civil rights to be in the public park after dark…The park is a well known gay meeting place and has a 10 0’clock closing time, but Bobby was beaten and then arrested several hours before that time. I feel this incident was greatly exaspereted by the Pheleps hate organization being in town the previous week protesting the law suit instituted by the members of a Gay and Lesbian Alliance club in one of our local high schools. And with the liberal stawart ACLU being connected, it only unified the condemnation further in this very conservative small town. It was in the fact that the anti-Phelps group that had assembled along the route, outnumbered the hate monger and his cronies by 40 to 1, and with a majorty of these anti-Phelps protesters coming from the local churches, I got a good dose of hope that even drastically opposing viewpoints can rally together against such a blatantly hateful subversive. I guess I’m just too much of a coward to radically express any opinion that’s sure to elicit the level of confrontation that a Gay Pride parade would generate…It’s an in your face stratagy, that I’m not so sure helps any cause, other than strengthing the opposition…So I’ll just do the ubiquitous fag dance and post here on the SD.

I don’t have a proper cite, but I do have a reference, suggesting that there’s something about experiencing puberty with people in close company that turns off the tendency to be sexually attracted to those people. (And, further, that siblings who are raised apart and later reunited are fairly frequently sexually attracted to each other.)

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=m3smvfz33l.fsf%40drizzle.com&output=gplain

From what I’ve seen, it looks like recent “gay pride” parades have essentially been hijacked by the extreme freaks. The earlier ones seem to have been more respectable affairs.

Dogface
From what I’ve seen, it looks like recent “gay pride” parades have essentially been hijacked by the extreme freaks. The earlier ones seem to have been more respectable affairs.

I agree wholeheartedly Dogface…although its hard to use your screenname with a straight face.

The utility of the Gay Pride Parades is a subject of debate within the gay community as well as without. But those who don’t care for them have no ability to stop those who do care for them, so the debate is somewhat academic.

But in relation to this thread and its OP, bashing and baiting as a social phenomenon (and not just of Uncle Oscar) preceded these events by, well, let’s be conservative and say “centuries.”

Certain pubertal types find namecalling an arousing experience. One of the posts above has provided a useful illustration.

Just imagine a guy with a short haircut, a severe five-o-clock shadow, puffing on a big stogie.

My gawd! You mean you’re George Michael?!?!? :smiley:

Can’t let you represent me as a total psycho, Lissa, your opinions notwithstanding. Here’s the quote:

** “Yet I cringe at the site of men kissing. It’s a gut reaction. There’s no distinction between my reaction to gay sex and anything else to which I have an instinctive aversion, say, eating shit.”**

I don’t equate kissing with sex. Please don’t twist my meaning to fit your needs. Thanks.

Agreed. My intent was simply to show that the possibility has not been ruled out. In response to Homebrew, I could not find any documentation proving or disproving a biological source of aversion. I think the sources provided by Lissa demonstrated that scientific study has shown that outward expressions of homophobia are culturally influenced, but do not address the possibility of a biological foundation for aversion to gay sex independent of its expression. Therefore, until such documentation is produced, to say that aversion IS a social construct is to do so without any scientific validity.

Ahh, more Lissa hijinks.

zwald “proved” that he was not by saying that he tolerated being around his gay co-workers, not the same in my book as having a close gay friend.

So now to qualify as non-homophobic, you have to either have gay friends or have a neutral or better reaction to gay sex. Very rich. I suppose claustophobes can handle small spaces at work? I guess agorophobes can stand open spaces…I can’t even think of an analogy. I remember a woman who was cat-phobic. She’d run out of the room when a cat approached. I don’t think a cat at work would get a warmer welcome. Well, I guess homophobia is its own special brand of phobia, so I’ll have to concede that I have no gay friends therefore I am a homophobe. I must be a supermodel-phobe as well. No, I know…supermodels are zwaldd-phobes.