There have been several threads lately about rape. I have never been raped, never raped anyone, nor has anyone that I am close to, ever fallen into either of those categories, that I know of.
Rape, as I understand it, is not about the sex, but about power of the attacker over the victim. In the case of date rape or rape by someone the victim knows it’s more about the abuse of the relationship and the betrayal. Yep the rapist are sick.
But why is rape seen as such a worse abuse than other emotional betrayals, by someone that is supposed to care about you.
I have been betrayed by someone that was supposed to have my back, but I don’t now, believe that everyone around me that I believe cares about me is going betray me. Yet rape victims, especially those of date rape, have a hard time trusting relationships again.
This is not a slam on rape victims, just trying to distinguish.
Because the rapist has violated the victim’s person in the most intimate and intrusive manner possible short of cutting upon one’s gut and pulling out intestines?
Because it involves a physical intrusion that is only appropriate when voluntary.
Sex is tied very closely to emotion, and to the survival of the species. It carries a lot of emotional baggage with it. Betrayal is worse when it involves physical violation.
Getting into an argument and breaking up with your SO is bad. Getting into an argument with your SO, stealing money from them, and breaking up, is worse. Getting into an argument, slapping them across the face, and breaking up, is worse still.
Sometimes, but not always. I had a hard time making the nightmares and flashbacks go away, not to mention the self-recrimination. I didn’t have any new trust concerns emerge.
Because genitals get special treatment. Walking around with my heart on my sleeve isn’t the same as walking around with my dick hanging out. Punching my nose isn’t the same as punching my cock.
Compared to what, though? I think the simplest explanation is that it has a physical component (the sexual assault) and an emotional component (the betrayal you mentioned). That means it’s likely, all other things being equal, to be more damaging than something that has only one of those components.
It’s not just the way people think; it’s also biology.
Right. If someone who was “supposed to have my back” decided to club me in the face with a rock, that would gain special status over other types of emotional betrayal, too.
I agree with you, but in fairness, it’s not just biology. Societal norms play a large role. And I think it’s fair to argue that those societal norms are sometimes irrational. In order to analyze this, let’s consider anal rape. This way we sidestep any biological-reproductive arguments entirely. So, why does an asshole warrant special status, say, compared to an ear? They are both sensitive human flesh. Logically they should be on similar footing if it weren’t for somewhat arbitrary societal norms. I would posit that the reason has roots in religious taboos regarding sexual gratification, and that if we were to re-balance our societal reactions to sexuality so that these organs were treated more equally, things like anal rape would impose far less a psychological burden on the victim. On the other hand anal rape is a known quantity, with known motivations, known physical trauma and intrusiveness parameters and likely durations, whereas earlobe-twisting (or something similar) involves more shades of gray. Therefore in a rational world it would still be considered a higher crime (and easier to argue at trial) than the act of pinning someone down and aggressively and humiliatingly pinching and twisting someone’s earlobe for 15 minutes.
Oooh, this thread is good. It should be in GD, I think. I am hanging on iamnotbatman’s every word. I don’t have answers to the OP, but I am finding batman’s last post verrrry innnnteresting.
But it’s not like we have rituals that involve the ear. Most people will have sex at some point. But it’s not like there are special ear stroking or ear penetration things that we do as well. As Marley23 said, sex does have that physical and emotional component. What other activity do people do on a regular basis that involves those aspects?
I remember a huge debate came up on a Prisoner (Prisoner: Cell Block H) message board. Prisoner was an Australian soap opera and on it, one of the characters, Angel was mad at one of the warders, Meg. So she got her friend to rape Meg.
And most of the people on the board said, Angel’s crime of having Meg raped was worse than murder.
I don’t agree but it does show you how people feel about it, even in a fictionalized account
I agree about the physical component. But my point is that the emotional component is partly decided by somewhat arbitrary societal norms. As an example, if society decided to elevate getting a wet willy to the same societal taboo as masturbation or other sexual activities, then the victim would be much more emotionally scarred than he currently would be by the fairly benign but disgusting act. Societal norms can be just as much responsible for emotional trauma than the physical act itself, which may on its own entail only very minor physical trauma.
Which is why I said it’s both. I’ve heard the wet willy analogy before and I always thought it was stupid. There’s a logic to it, but that doesn’t mean it’s a serious argument. It deliberately oversimplifies the issue. Nobody’s ever said rape is a serious crime only because it involves the penetration of an orifice. The norms are subjective, but that doesn’t mean they are arbitrary and irrational. There is an obvious rationale there.
I already said it was true, so no, I am not denying it.
Have you ever heard anyone say rape is worse than child abuse? The next time I hear it will be the first. I’ve never heard anyone compare the two (I can’t imagine why anyone would do that). Child abuse does not have to be physical and it can involve rape. They’re not totally separate categories.
The way people think = low tech version of “social norms.”
Pointed out again that I said rape is treated the way it is because of both the way people think (norms) and biology, and then acknowledged there are subjective norms involved.
