Of course. I never said it does. ??
I was going with the flow of the thread:
- Why doesn’t the US have a stronger, less likely to be forged vaccine card?
- Because you don’t need to present it to get in anywhere.
YOU: But businesses can require it to get in.
ME: But that doesn’t require the government to humor a private business’ wishes.
Me: #2 is not true everywhere, and is changing.
You: That’s not a good reason for the government to have to set up forgery-proof system.
Me: I didn’t say it was??
It seems like you are attributing a position to me that I have expressly not taken in this thread:
It doesn’t matter how many or how few travel internationally. You asked what reason there could be for a secure COVID vaccination document, and I gave you one. And I think it’s rather a stretch to think of presenting a vaccination document to be “sharing health information with foreign governments”. The fact that someone has been vaccinated against COVID is not exactly confidential private information. Furthermore, one of the most insidious governments on the planet for abusing personal information is the US government.
And most governments are likely to require proof of vaccination, a negative Covid test, or both, so you’re going to be sharing some health information with a foreign government wherever you decide to travel.
Many governments already require proof of vaccination - usually Yellow Fever. Provide it or don’t go there.
That’s true. But the “proof” looks a lot like the COVID vaccine card I got.
A “secure” vaccination document, however, is going to have to contain something that ties it to an individual, such as biometrics. What happens if X country’s database of vaccinations and matching biometrics gets hacked? You can change a password; you can’t change your fingerprints or your DNA.
It’s already complicated. My wife who teaches at both the state community college and state university here in town (neither pay worth a damn sadly) says they each have different guidelines.
The community college has explicitly said they will NOT require proof of vaccination for fall semester, with the argument that they have no dorms or sports teams and do not see the need.
The state college says that they WILL require proof of vaccination, and didn’t feel any need to explain, which makes sense to me, they require MMR as mentioned upthread.
Back to the OP - the why is that the whole vaccine passport was (IMHO) DOA on arrival at the federal level. It was never going to be possible in our current political climate, and thus why throw money at a secure and/or high tech proof? Heck, I found it amusing that when I signed up for the vaccine online, I spend time identifying myself (minimally) and my current health circumstances, got multiple online and text based verifications including QR codes, all of which were checked 3 times at the drive in clinic - but the same simplistic verification card.
So, like passports.
This amusing to me, as I was only this morning reading a book which talked about how Americans are the most paranoid people on earth.
Passports carry biometric information. This is simply an add on.
BTW, has any country yet issued a vaccination ‘passport’? In the UK, we just have a card, much like in the US, which is simply a hand written record of which vaccine we’ve had and when. Same information that is stored on the NHS database.
As of this morning, Denmark have this.
It can be used both locally and in travelling. It show a QR-code which can be scanned from another phone with the same app. It will show vaccinations, earlier infection and recent negative covid test.
Oh, and it should be compatible with the EU app, expected, at the latest, July 1.
I’m actually surprised that the OP is surprised.
When it comes to consumer tech, the US is actually a bit of a laggard, whether it comes to payment systems, broadband, smart phones and online services.
Yes, a great deal of new tech gets developed in places like silicon valley, but widespread adoption can be slow.
This is usually due to some combination of the federal system making certain national rollouts difficult, and a culture that at least some of the time is tech phobic. Both of these issues come to play with the concept of vaccine passports.
All that being said, I’m not sure that anywhere has a very good system. Here in China we’ve had a national test and trace system linked to a smart phone app (that displays a helpful color code and is checked in many places) since about Feb last year. However vaccine status doesn’t seem to be included in that same, primary app. I really thought it would just be another color code to indicate you’d been vaccinated, but right now it’s still not joined up.
Because, given the political situation, there are a lot more people who would lie about a COVID vaccination than a flu shot. And, given the pandemic and potential consequences of vaccine escape, there’s a lot more reason to need to be sure. Given that, I don’t think “taking the patient’s word” should cut it.
A more valid comparison, IMHO, would be shots like the MMR vaccine. As far as I can tell, that is generally handled by going to whoever has your medical records and getting them to attest you’ve had the vaccine. I question how good this is for COVID-19, however, as there are doctors out there who got caught up in this nuttery, and I wouldn’t expect that none of them would be willing to lie for their patients. Heck, some might even lie for their “patients”—people who only came to them for a fake.
Exactly the same in the UK.
If push comes to shove, Rite-Aid and Blue Shield have records of my vaccinations. Luckily, my first international trip since COVID is to a country starved for tourist dollars and unlikely to get fussy about how official my vaccination card looks.
US passports carry a digitized photograph of the bearer; that is the entire extent of our “biometric” passport. It is capable of being used for facial recognition, but unlike in some countries, US passports do not carry fingerprints or iris scans. You have to get a new photograph with every passport renewal because people don’t necessarily look the same over time, and passports for international travel expire on a regular basis (usually ten years, for US nationals).
How would that work with vaccine passports? Do they “expire” and you have to get a new set of vaccines every ten years? What is the process for getting new vaccine information added, using only a photograph? Is every pop-up vaccine clinic and drugstore minute clinic going to need advanced facial recognition technology, and how it that going to be accepted in neighborhoods where many people don’t want to come to government attention (undocumented immigrants, e.g.)?
The vaccine cards will be like your driver’s license when traveling abroad. Officials will ask to see it, but they will have no way to easily verify its authenticity.
[quote=“slash2k, post:57, topic:943045”]
US passports carry a digitized photograph of the bearer; that is the entire extent of our “biometric” passport. It is capable of being used for facial recognition, but unlike in some countries, US passports do not carry fingerprints or iris scans. You have to get a new photograph with every passport renewal because people don’t necessarily look the same over time, and passports for international travel expire on a regular basis (usually ten years, for US nationals).[/quote]
Biometric passports carry your personal data on a microchip - it’s more than a digital photo. It’s why you can use e-gates at airports. I can’t imagine there’s a country in the world where you don’t have to renew your passport every few years with a new photo.
Isn’t this what national governments are for? They manage to issue passports, I can’t image issuing some kind of renewable vaccine card (in all likelihood, digital these days) is beyond the wit of civil servants. As for undocumented people, well, that’s very definition of being undocumented, isn’t it? I can’t imagine they’ll be too troubled about getting a vaccine passport for their annual trip to Cancun.
UPDATED SAT MAY 2021 WHO INTERNATIONAL VACCINE PASSPORTS:
AIRLINES: Airlines are already offering digital platforms that contain passenger health information.
- Several governments are opening borders if travelers can prove been vaccinated or tested negative for Covid-19 but it’s unclear if digital credentials will be required.
As of Wednesday, almost half of the total U.S. population had received at least one Covid-19 vaccine dose. New Covid infections in the country continue to drop. As of Thursday, the seven-day average of daily new Covid infections is at its lowest level since June 22, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University.
Vaccinated people no longer need to wear masks or physically distance indoors or out, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said earlier this month.
Retailers like Walmart and Costco and hotel chains including Hyatt dropped their mask requirements for vaccinated customers this month, unless it’s required in local rules. U.S. officials have said they are largely relying on people being honest about their vaccine status, and retailers and hotel chains have said they don’t plan to check for a proof of a vaccine.
Officials in charge of overseeing international travel require more than the honor system. Federal officials require U.S.-bound international travelers, including U.S. citizens, to show proof of a negative Covid test result to board flights.
A spokeswoman for the Department of Homeland Security said DHS officials don’t check passengers’ Covid test results upon entry but — that is up to the airlines.
As airlines like United, Delta and American ramp up trans-Atlantic service, they are encouraging travelers to upload health documents online.
The travel industry has urged the Biden administration to create a set of standards for digital health credentials in an effort to lift travel restrictions that have devastated demand for leisure and business trips abroad for more than a year. The administration has said it will leave the task of developing digital health credentials up to the private sector. Federal officials also said they don’t intend to keep a database of vaccination records; that will be left to states.
Enter digital health apps. Sometimes referred to as vaccine passports, several of these platforms are already in development and some in use, including partnerships with airlines and local governments.
Here is where things stand on vaccine passports in the U.S.:
UPDATED UPDATED SAT MAY 2021 PUBLISHED BY THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION.
Please go to their site to see pics, lists of airlines. Also check your province, city, and local businesses!