Why doesn't swimming under water hurt?

I would like to extend my sincere thanks for not including testicles in your rhetorical question.

I can breath again.

I don’t see the point of this post.

As noted previously… you are wrong. :slight_smile:

Regardless of why humans can’t dive that deep, my point was that whales can. And that the whales are able to survive without pain at both 16 psi and 1,400 psi.

If your insistence is that swimming in pools doesn’t hurt because low pressure doesn’t hurt, then explain how the whales withstand high pressure without pain.

Probably for the same reason polar bears can survive in Antarctica and I can’t. Two different species. They’re whales and we’re humans.

The point is I will crush you!

Seriously, the point is that the pressure doesn’t hurt because it’s applied uniformly. The human body can actually survive a fair amount of uniform pressure.

Are you kidding? The first thing you notice when you start diving is the pressure on your ears and sinuses. Then as you start reaching bottom of the Marianas Trench, your head implodes.

Note to OP: See how a naive question, with multiple disclaimers, can lead to scientific argument and rancor not seen since the AC versus DC- current wars?

Bad OP.

I’ve been trying to get this info for a while. Cite?

I don’t have a cite for this but I find it within reason. A very strong athlete can bench press possibly 350-400 pounds and fighters are trained to lean into punches and transfer their body weight into the force of a punch. Add speed to that equation and there is a lot of force (pressure) happening at the point of impact.

If you read on the fight forums people usually point out that Tyson never took a PSI measurement and the force of his punch is based on calculations. Even so I didn’t see where any cites of specific measurements of any boxers were posted. Discussions of 600 to 1200 PSI punches seem to be prevelant.

Is there any evidence that a skull has ever been crushed this way?

For this to be true, there would have to be a pressure differential between the exterior and interior of your skull. Given that it’s full of minimally compressible solids and liquids, how does such a pressure differential happen?

Various googling suggests that saturation diving has been done to depths exceeding 2000’. Mammals are known to reach depths around 10,000’ with no evidence their skulls are close to being crushed.

It is probably true that your soft tissue will fail and equalize the pressure before your skull is crushed. But then you’d be dead, and not quite swimming.

But they aren’t humans. This is like saying Polar Bears are known to walk in the Arctic without coming close to freezing to death. What other mammals can do has little to no bearing on what humans can do.

Your skull won’t crush like a tin can at any depth. It’s filled with a incompressible mostly liquid substance. Long before your skull reached crush depth, any air pockets would have also been filled with water.

Unfortunately, two of those compressible air pockets are your lungs, which you need for breathing and whatnot. Which gets harder to do when you have hundreds of pounds of water trying to compress you.

Diving limitations seem to have more to do with blood chemistry than physical forces.

Just some random message boards. Certainly nothing peer-reviewed. It seemed reasonable though.

Ok, yes it doesn’t hurt your feet to stand on them. But what if a 200 pounder stood on your back? Or better yet as many could fit their feet on to apply a uniform 4 psi across your entire back? (For me that would be about six) Are you saying that that wouldn’t hurt?

No. Well not because of the pressure on your back. People get massages where the masseuse walks on your back. It would hurt because your chest is 3-d, so that weight is going to be concentrated on your sternum at a much higher pressure.

Think about situations like weight lifting. I bench 185 pounds, and the bar doesn’t contact with more than a couple square inches of my hand. That doesn’t hurt, and certainly my back doesn’t hurt supporting that extra weight.

Well, we tend to believe that physics are much the same across species. So what’s different about the skull of a whale that keeps it intact at enormous pressures, whereas a human skull is crushed “like a tin can”?

And note that a can filled with water would not be crushed. Which tends to indicate that a human skull also would not be.

Note, too, that humans who have been to a depth of over 2000’ do not seem to report symptoms of their skulls getting ready to collapse.

As I said, this is not a good argument. Whales also manage to live in waters cold enough to kill humans. To answer your question, I would say there’s a hell of a lot different between a human and whale skull.

You’re taking the analogy a little bit too far. While it is technically true that a perfectly filled can would not be crushed, your skull isn’t a perfectly filled and sealed container. Even if it were, the pressure inside your skull would be 25,000 psi. Which I’d imagine would be very painful and fatal.

The ones that have been that deep were wearing fully contained suits.

Think of it this way.

If you take a balloon filled with air to 250 feet underwater, it wills hrink to half its normal diameter. (266 feet approx 8 atm, thus 1/8 the volume). But… it does this because it’s air, and gases react to pressure accourding to the ideal gas law (Boyle’s law) Pressure times volume is proportional to quantity of gas times temperature times a costant.

Solids and liquids are far less compressible. (as mentioned by earlier posts, for practical purposes they don’t change volume under pressure.) A water-filled balloon would be the same volume at 250 feet as at 1 foot, and the same shape. It does not flatten, pressure is the same in all directions.

Same with you scuba diving. You don’t flatten, because you are mostly water and otehr liquds, solids, and jelly mixtures… If you were full of hot air (hypotetically speaking) you would be crushed to half your former size. That’s what would be painful. When someone puts a ton of lead on you , it’s trying to deform you to look more like a pancake. If your testicles are in a vice or someone steps on them, they are being defomed to pancake shape. That’s what’s painful; the outer edges of the sphere are stretching well beyond normal size to try to reduce pressure on the overall structure. Pressure in only hurts if it stretches or squeezes the body in bad shapes. (How many PSI across your palms when you bench press 300 pounds? Or carry a person on your back, doubling the weight on your foot? Still it doesn’t hurt…) Equal pressure from every direction at once equalizes without deforming your body.

In fact, in scuba diving, as you descend you inhale air at ambient pressure; if the air in your mouthpiece were not the same pressure, it would compress and h mouthpiece would fill with water. Instead, the regulator keeps leaking air until the pressure is greater than the surrounding water and it bubbles out. You suck this into your lungs, and your lungs have the same pressure of air as the water pressure around you. What hurts (speaking from experience) is the cavities that cannot adjust, your sinuses and ear tubes. There’s a trick that you hold your nose and try to blow air into your ears to equalize the pressure. If it does not work, I know, your ear can hurt like hell. Of course, coming back up you have to reverse the process or blow an eardrum.

Very true - the question is, what’s the difference that allows one to have no problems while the other is crushed? Note that the whale skull is - like all vertebrate skulls - not a sealed container, so its contents are not shielded from ambient pressure.

I don’t dispute that you’d imagine it, but I’d like to see evidence it’s true. (I know that I can imagine things that are ridiculous.)

Well, they were fully exposed to ambient pressure.

I’d say it’s more of an example of a Good OP. :smiley:

The record scuba dive depth I was able to find was 1044 feet, wearing a compressible suit.

The same thing that makes a submarine harder to crush than a soda can. It’s bigger and thicker.

I think it would be but not because it would “pinch” your head. Your head isn’t 100% water. I feel like at some point, the pressure would start to damage the cell linings and whatnot.

Actually, High pressure neurological syndrome appears to be what limits how deep a person can go under water, as opposed to ‘being crushed’. At depths below 300 meters, pressure effects on the nervous system starts causing significant dysfunction, and this only increases as depth increases.