No big benefit of free weights over cables or machines for many people.
I literally lift weights (small ones) because i work out at home, and weights are cheaper to buy and take less storage space than the machines in the gym. But before the pandemic, i mostly used machines.
I think the machines are a little better, because they can deliver the same resistance over a long distance, from lots of different angles. Weights pretty much only work up and down, and bands (which i also use) have changing resistance as you pull them.
That being said, i don’t think the difference is very large in what it does to my body.
Weights are better since there are more movements in three dimensions than prescribed paths, and have the potential to involve far more muscles (multijoint exercises). But the difference doesn’t matter to casual lifters and much more knowledge is required to use free weights optimally. Not all machines are equally good, but there is certainly nothing wrong with them and most of the benefits are there. A few specific machine and cable exercises are superior to free weight ones, cable often offers more consistent resistance throughout a movement.
The whole basis of weightlifting is increasing effort over time - increasing weight, maybe, but also increasing number of reps, less resting time, pausing during a movement or holding the weight in a contracted position. But if you do the exact same thing for months without more effort the benefits are fewer.
It seems to be that the phrase “lifting weights” almost poisons the well for some.
First it isn’t really what you are advocating. You are, I think, trying to spread the Good Word of the importance of strength training, and to some degree of exercise in general. (As the thread progressed you’ve been very clear that all exercise is good and that strength training can be done without weights at all.) And that huge benefits are gained with fairly little time or effort.
And “lifting weights” as the means of strength training has baggage to lift along with it. So much bro science and images of lunkheads.
Anyway. One whine. At 63 I am definitely more sore next day after exercise, not especially challenging exercise, than I used to be. Not horribly and I have always liked a little sense of ache as it was a psychological attaboy of a sort. Even though I know soreness is not required. I get that my connective tissue ages whether I keep up with exercise or not, so some reactions will happen now that didn’t before. Still it is something I notice.
I agree “lifting weights” often has negative associations. So does “gym class” and even “exercise” for millions of people.
There are three types of soreness. Annoying pain a day or two after lifting is delayed onset muscle soreness. This is annoying and happens when there is microdamage to a muscle on a new or strenuous exercise. Annoying, but short lived. A sign of progress. Acetaminophen, low doses of antiinflammatory pills and ointments, and warm soaks may help. Creatine may help quicken recovery but does not affect soreness.
Sharp soreness during the lifting of the weight is more concerning. Most of these settle down, are spasms or strains, but the exercise should always be stopped. Always train around injury and not through it.
Injury is more concerning. It helps to stretch the shoulders before pressing or overhead work (facepulls, Cuban presses, bands). Older people are better off training strength by doing two or three reps at 70-90% of their maximum, and hypertrophy at 50-80% of their maximum. Most injuries happen trying to push the one-rep maximum, and there is no need to routinely do this.
I injured myself lifting weights. No idea how. I had missed 13 days due to constant illness so I took it really easy when I resumed. But I still managed to mess myself up. I limped for a week. Months later, something in my elbow is still not right. But the pain is mild, so mild it seems stupid to go to a doctor for, and it hasn’t interfered with my ability to resume weightlifting.
I did however stop doing push-ups. I am an overweight, busty woman and I think it was just too much strain.
I wonder to what extent some might not lift weights because of the sociocultural connotations ascribed to it, however subjectively and erroneously…
in the eyes of some - possibly many - weightlifting is associated with tacky, toxic hyper-masculine bros in vests flexing their biceps in the mirror, talking about ‘gainz’ and taking breaks between protein shakes to re-inject themselves in the ass with their proprietary “test/tren stack”.
The vast majority of weightlifters (such as me) are not like this. But, the stereotype is there. And, what’s more, when you peer over at the weights area of the gym, it is significantly ‘gruffer’ than the cardio/machines bit: loud clangs of metal, grunts, and all sorts of scary -looking paraphernalia protagonise. For someone who is feeling a bit delicate and insecure - as most newbies do - and has already bought in to the ‘neanderthal weightlifter’ archetype, first impressions of a weights area are unlikely to mitigate things hugely.
The first time I took my girlfriend to the gym, I practically had to drag her to the weights area, such was her reluctance to even approach it, much less enter it. Her reticence was based entirely on not belonging: she had no problem with the weightlifting process on any physical or practical level; rather, it just seemed like a particular area that she had no right nor place to be in. (I am now pleased to say that she is benching like a champ).
Not sure why but I’ve always thought of routine slight soreness next day as not quite the same as DOMS. Certainly never bad enough to medicate. Again that slight soreness is often to me a good thing, actually a bit of a reminder the next day that I am making effort to be in good health which actually then helps me walk away from the pile of donuts that a co-worker brought in. I think of DOMS as what I had after my one marathon. But mechanistically probably there is no difference
The point though is it’s different now that I am not as young. (And I am not older dammit, just not as young!) It takes less of a work out to cause a bit more soreness than in did when I was a decade younger.
As to the PR issue of “lifting weights” … had this discussion with my eldest son (the one who power lifts) and he notes how many women he knows are still afraid to lift weights because while they want to “tone” they are not wanting to get bulk. Admittedly he does not have as good of a grasp on the differences between strength, hypertrophy, and power, as I would expect him to have, but his point is valid to the issue that the product that is strength training (and regular exercise even) needs marketing work.
There are several barriers to strength training.
It takes time.
Many have bad memories of gym and exercise.
You need a gym you like and can afford.
Home gyms are thought to be expensive.
Gyms vary in what is available.
Gyms vary in how well they explain use.
It takes some knowledge.
Gyms push “personal training”.
This varies widely in terms of broness and quality.
Women may experience unwanted attention.
Women may get negative comments from peers.
Steroid use is a thing (male fitness influencers).
Strength training is hard and a bit painful.
The meathead mentality is still a thing.
Many people rarely go to the gym after joining.
Only about 30% of gym users use the free weights and weight machines at all. Classes and “just cardio machines” are somewhat more popular.
Testosterone is ten times more present in men than women. It is quite a lot harder for many women to bulk up than men, in general. However, the stigma against this is finally changing somewhat, anecdotally. Fitness magazines often now emphasize strength and many are marketed mainly to women.
There is much more of an academic understanding to lifting, and good instructional info is much easier to come by these days. However, there is still plenty of piffle (dubious fitness influencers with more charisma than knowledge).
Once you use significant weights, recovery is longer. It’s not just age although this is a factor too. I don’t deadlift heavy as often as I once did.
And perhaps many of those are in fact “barriers”, more false perceptions than reality.
No gym, included home gym, is needed at all for effective strength training, and small investments (in terms of money for select equipment, and time) can accomplish lots. See that $75 gym equipment thread. Still people do get intimidated thinking that they cannot do what really they can. Big fan of using rings as part of my strength training myself, and they can be used in ways that allow someone starting off with little strength and much excess fat to make significant gain. You don’t need to be able to do a single pull up to have a routine that works. And they are cheap.
You danced around it, but you missed, “it’s unpleasant to do”.
I do strength training because i think it’s good for me. I hire a personal trainer because i can afford to, and because otherwise there’s no way I’d actually exercise regularly. Because it’s unpleasant. Having a personable woman cheering me on helps, but i still really don’t enjoy training. It’s a chore, and one that i enjoy a lot less than the work I’m paid to do.
To be more accurate, and it matters: “some have found the forms of strength training they have tried to be unpleasant, and unpleasant enough that they don’t do it even when they understand the benefits.”
The “it’s good for you” argument doesn’t work on getting kids to eat a vegetable they don’t like the taste of, nor on many adults for exercise they experience as distasteful. Of course for kids what many parents compromise on is to get their kids to each day at least taste vegetable they haven’t tried in a bit and see if today is the day they like it. Usually they eventually do discover the Joy of Broccoli. Not sure what lesson to learn from that other than that metaphorically shoving any exercise down people’s throats is unlikely to develop lasting habits.
People mostly do things that the enjoy doing, or that they need to do with some urgency. There’s pretty much never urgency about exercise. (Hiring a trainer is a way to create urgency.) Some people really enjoy exercising. They feel good while they do it, or immediately after. A lot of people don’t. That’s why things like tennis, with social benefits, are easier for many people do do regularly than generic weight-bearing exercise.
I feel great after strength training, but I find it very unpleasant to get started. I have to trick myself by only committing to one exercise, or dramatically reducing the length of the workout.
I don’t. I feel bored and a little uncomfortable during strength training, and tired, sticky, and drained afterwards. I kind of hate it.
I realize that people vary, and some really enjoy training. But any advice that doesn’t take into account that a lot of people are like me, and don’t enjoy this, and are unlikely to enjoy this, is going to be unhelpful to all those people.
@Spice_Weasel, well we’ve already established that you get plenty of strength training with preschooler squats! And it is progressive training to boot!
And to @puzzlegal that relates … very seriously integrating exercise into play with children when there are children in the house is one way to make it something that we enjoy and that we feel some urgency about.
More broadly though I will extend my vegetables analogy. One way for us as adults to deal with eating more vegetables is to experiment with different vegetables, different preparations, and different recipes, and to mix it up. I didn’t like Brussels Sprouts years back but then I tried them roasted with just a touch of maple syrup and toasted walnuts … I am pretty sure though I’m never going to find a preparation of artichokes I like. Some people though tasted boiled to mush Brussels Sprouts and declared all vegetables as yuck forever.
Of course the other perspective is that I don’t especially enjoy brushing my teeth, honestly I gag getting at my rear molars, but the effort is slight compared to the benefits so I am very regular with the habit anyway. Even slight effort with exercise similarly has huge benefits compared to the level of effort.
While not liking the feeling of exercise is typical of exercise in general, I agree that weight training has more overhead for the newbie than other exercises. Even if someone doesn’t like exercise, doing something like going for a walk or jog is very straightforward and simple. Lifting weights has more details about it that a newbie isn’t going to necessarily find enjoyable. A newbie is often looking for any excuse to not exercise. Weightlifting has more potential for excuses, so the newbie is more likely to not get into weightlifting. For someone looking to start exercising, lifting weights may not be the exercise they should start with unless they have a strong passion for it. It’s most important for the newbie exerciser to develop the habit and motivation to exercise in the first place. They should focus on activities that they find fun (or at least don’t hate) so that they develop the habit of being active on a regular basis. Once the newbie has the motivation to be fit, they can do other activities which aren’t so high on the fun scale.
Along those lines, I would recommend a newbie interested in resistance workouts to try a group class like BodyPump. This is a group class taught in gyms where you use a barbell. It’s not a weightlifting workout, but it does use weights in a way that can prevent muscle loss and develop some new muscle. Because it’s in a class setting, it’s easy for the newbie to just follow along rather than have to figure out everything themselves. For someone worried about muscle loss, it would be a great activity to do on a regular basis regardless of your age.
In an original draft I said it is hard, but when I edited I erased it accidentally. I do not find all exercise unpleasant, but like some things much more than others. Likely most people dislike most exercise.
I spend less than 2% of my week working out, and the results positively impact the other 98% of my life. Skipping that unpleasant 2% would make my life more unpleasant 100% of the time and from what I see around me, that applies to most people’s lives.
I also hate brushing my teeth. It’s boring and feels weird. My husband thinks I’m nuts.
The way I have found to make it more tolerable is to make it into a mindfulness exercise. Really take my time and feel the bristles on my gums, etc. It might help as an approach for virtually anything we don’t like, to just come to it with a neutral approach. Where liking the activity isn’t the point. Observing and learning is the point.