Why don't American car manufacturers make more reliable cars?

In My Humble Opinion
21

The source for statistics on reliability I use are the ones in the annual Consumer Reports car issue. If you go back 10 years ago or more the difference in the reliability charts of US vs the top Japanese/German makers was astonishing. But in the most recent issue, the difference is still there but quite small.

Note that companies can and do upgrade their cars’ reliability. Honda used to suck big time. More recently, Hyundai started off bad and has made great progess. Expect them to start getting “recommended” reports in a couple of years.

22

Actually, the Hyundai Santa Fe, Sonata and XG350 were all recommended in the 2003 issue. If you look at the predicted reliability of new cars, almost all of the better than average cars are imports, and the domestics are below average, for the most part.

23

I gave up on Consumer Reports back in the early '80s. A friend was looking to buy a car so he picked up their used car guide. Under what the called “Sporty Cars” they had several Nipponese Go-Karts and the Chevy Camaro. To “make things fair” they tested a Camaro with a 4 cylinder engine, and were then amazed when it “didn’t have the pick-up of the Japanese cars.” No shit, Sherlock. I don’t even KNOW anyone who bought a 4-cyl Camaro…

24

The toaster testers

These are the same people that said that a Masda Navajo is more reliable than a Ford Explorer - THEY ARE THE EXACT SAME SUV!!!

Yep no bias there :rolleyes:

In business school we studied this matter and in short, it seems that the Jap cars were better when one only looked at the first attempt at small cars b the big 3. Effective marketing created a halo effect about the difference in their own cars and the Pinto, Chevette, and I do not remember the Dodge version.

There have always been a bottom/cheap version. Compare like priced vehicles. The Camery may say $16K, but the Camery that gets tested has the V6 and all the other good options that make it about 10K more than the base price.

25

Options don’t explain basic reliability issues.

Heck, it’s all subjective for the most part, but I’ve driven imports and I’ve driven American, and the American cars were terribly unreliable and the Asian cars ran like tops for years. How many recalls has the Focus had now?

26

Consumer Reports doesn’t just test the “souped-up” version - they tested two versions of the Honda Accord, both the 4-cyl. and the V6, in seperate reviews. The V6 actually scored lower than the 4-cylinder.

And to the person who said CR is unfair because they tested a 4-cyl. Camaro against the Japanese “Go-Karts” - well, if the Japanese cars had 4-cylinder engines (as I imagine they must have, since the Japanese haven’t had V6’s in their compact sport cars ever, that I know of), and they beat the Camaro, then that’s fair. If the Camaro needs two more cylinders to compete with the Japanese cars, then it’s inferior.

27

I don’t know which “Go-Karts” were used in the comparison, but given that description I would imagine the Camaro is significantly heavier. Using the same engine in a heavier car does not make a test fair. However, as I said, I haven’t seen the report in question, so I could be wrong.

28

They test by category, as far as I know. I mean, most people don’t sort the cars they’re looking at by weight - they’ll say “Here’s the Camaro, comperable to the Celica. There’s the Impala, comperable to the Accord,” etc.

29

Although I too believe american cars are now pretty close to on-par with their japanese counter parts I still don’t trust american over japanese (and my last 2 cars were american: 88 bonneville and 92 voyager).

One thing I hate about auto makers are the unions. Only american car makers allow unionized workers (Toyota in Cambridge ON, where my Matrix comes from, isn’t unionized). Unions (IMO) make workers lazy. I had a friend who worked at Chrysler (at a plant in Brantford ON) and he would tell the funniest stories. I never really cared but now I realized that I don’t want my car being made by that type of person.

I want serious workers, not ones (like my friend) who would catch a nap in the back of one of the cars being made. Or play around with parts and stuff like that. He even told me getting fired was almost impossible unless you assault or kill someone on purpose.

I’d say the unions are the reason why american cars generally suck.

30

I noticed this when I was in Japan. The Japanese I met seem to be willing to pay more for a product if they feel it’s quality will allow them to keep it longer. They did not seem to be concerned with having a new car (or anything for that matter) every so often, but wanted to buy a very high quality product they could hang on to.

Americans seem willing to settle for a car that will only last 5-6 years because they intend to buy a new one anyway.

The quality of the product you produce is related to the minimum quality your customer base expects IMHO

31

I must admit that out of about twelve cars, (including Opel, VW, Toyota, Audi, Saab, Subaru), the most dependable one was a 1994 Saturn SL1.

I put almost 200,000 miles on that car and not once had to do any major repair whatsoever beyond standard wear and tear stuff that every car would need. I drove it from Dallas to San Francisco, all over the West Coast, up in Tahoe in the snow and ice, no problem.

It was hands-down the most reliable car I’ve ever owned.

The biggest POS was also the most expensive - the Audi. Ask any Audi owner about the joys of replacing “O2 sensors” and watch them convulse.

32

While I drive a Honda Civic (which I’m very happy with – 210,000 miles and running strong), I do not agree that American cars are generally unreliable. The truth is more complicated.

I do think that Japan might make the most long-term reliable of a certain type of car: fairly inexpensive, small, fuel-efficient, not a whole lot of pickup. (You pretty much nailed it M_Balle, a go-kart).

And possibly, people who want more high-performance or luxury cars are probably going to trade in a lot sooner than someone like me – a car can look like crap, but I’ll keep it a million miles, as long as it runs well. (E.g., you see a higher percentage of Honda Civics with 200,000 miles on them than you do Cadillacs). If this assumption is true, it would place more pressure on the Japanese manufacturers to design for marathon durability – that’s their target market.

Also, I wouldn’t expect Cadillacs and Corvettes to last 200,000 miles with routine maintenance, any more than I’d expect my Civic to go from zero to 60 in under seven seconds (seven minutes, maybe). (I know nothing (and make no claims) about the relative reliability of upscale Japanese and American cars: say, a Lexus vs. a Corvette, or SUVs).

I did read somewhere (sorry, no cite) that both Japanese and American manufacturers employed a strategy for new models in which they ‘worked the bugs out’ at home for a few years before making models available overseas. If Consumer Reports knew about this and didn’t mention it, they are indeed guilty of bias.

33

Member of the automotive industry chiming in. A car is only as good as its design (to echo someone’s earlier sentiments) and its quality control.

The Case for Design: The 1995 3.8L engine found in the 95 Windstars, taurus/sable, Mustangs, T-birds, and Lincoln Continentals has been an Achilles heel for Ford. This engine as some of you may know first hand is prone to premature head gasket failure. Jesus Christ working the assembly line could not prevent one of these 3.8L engines from blowing a headgasket before 100,000 miles because the design is flawed.

The Case for Quality Control: Forget the crap about Japanese workers vs. American workers, a car company is only as good as its quality control (providing the design end of things is sound). Whether the monkeys on the assembly line are Canadian, Japanese, or Mexican is irrelevant, its how the monkeys are governed, trained, and monitored that counts. The Nissan Sentra is a Jap car assembled in Mexico. Your Volvo might have been assembled in either Canada or Thailand. In today’s global village a car company will go virtually anywhere to increase profit margins. Car companies who successfully reconcile production costs and quality can do it at home or anywhere. Its not the workers, its the methodology.

34

That doesn’t necessarily mean they are unbiased. How do they select whom to survey, and how do they make sure they get 100% of the selected sample (or an unbiased subset of it) to respond? If a particular brand has good brand loyalty, people who are happy with their cars are more likely to respond. Owners of lemon Toyotas may keep quiet (i.e. not participate in CR surveys) while an owner of a lemon Chevy may be far more vocal.

35

Include the (I think it was a 1.9L) in the 1995 Ford Escort. It was the first American car I had owned in over twenty years, and I was leary, but since it was given to me gratis by a kind-hearted friend helping out a single parent, I drove it. But not for long, because the first head gasket blew right at 100,000 miles. A friend foolishly paid for the repairs. I tried to talk them out of it but they insisted (big believers in Fords, for some reason-plus their neighbor was a mechanic by trade). I was proven correct when the second one blew at 110,000. Did massive research on the internet and discovered that was pretty much par for a 1995 Ford Escort. It is now in the junk yard because repairing it would cost more than it was even worth. Only eight years old with only 110,000 miles on it. After my experience with it I began to notice how few old (say, over five years old) Escorts there are on the road considering how ubiquitous new ones are.

I am now happily driving a 1994 Honda Civic, which has more mileage and is a year older yet has never had anything done to it but maintenance (and yes, I know that for a fact becuase I know the original owner). It’s just as good as the 1987 Honda CRX I drove before the Ford, which I finally decided needed a final rest at 250,000.

36

That is so true. Self reporting is unreliable. Several people I know with Toyotas tell me they never have a problem. When I pry the truth comes out. I’ll ask why the last “regular maintenance” bill was $475. A= oh well it was just a little thing. Or I might ask why the Camery has been parked for two months. A= waiting on a part… Oh yea, I thought there was never any problems!!!

Not that this is scientific, but every domestic I have owned has outlasted my friends import counterpart. I have a Mercury Grand Marquis with 220K and the only thing done has been gas, oil and filter, air and fuel filter, tires, a few light bulbs, and two alternators. My Buick has gone 250K+ with a similar record, and so have several others that I have owned. My 200K+ Explorer just lost a trans (the only Jap part in the drive train). The plastic intake manifold on one of my cars went bad, about the worst and most major component I have had go bad. Job done for less than what my friends pay for “regular maintenance”

AND I beat the hell out of my vehicles:D

37

The real reason Detroit won’t make reliable cars is that Mr and Mrs. Braindead American want to buy big honkin’ SUVs and don’t give a shit about reliabiity, safety, gas mileage or anything like that. Morons rule here. If everybody were really hot for realiability and so forth, that’s what Detroit would offer.

38

Agreed. One cannot generalise findings based on a self-selected sample. One could conclude that CR readers would most likely agree with the overall findings, more or less, but CR readership demographics and such are skewed vs the general US population.

39

I have to agree that the reliability of the US built is actually quite comparable to Japanese cars. A lot of the “quality” issues you see mentioned in magazines and such, are relatively minor things, the feel of the switchgear, the types of plastics used on interior panels, panel gaps, etc…

They never look into what goes underneath the car.

GM’s percieved quality in the early 90’s was horrible. The paint would flake off the cars, the interior switchgear was quite chintzy, etc…

But my mom’s 1990 Grand Prix is still going strong 185,000 miles later.

My 1996 Aurora, on the other hand, is miles and miles better than that GP as far as interior plastics go, panel fits, and general quality feel.

Dogde has taken a lot of reliability hits for various reasons, mostly because their FWD transmissions sucked for a while, and the whole neon head gasket debacle. While the problems have been fixed, the reputation that the problems caused hasn’t, even though the cars are much better.

A lot of Dodge cars are actually built on Mitsubishi platforms too, oddly enough.

The Dodge Stratus coupe and Mitsubishi Eclipse are the same car, same engines, hell, same dash, and have been for a while (since back in the Avenger days)

And yet the Stratus is a “lower quality” car.

Go figure. Both even roll out of the same plant, if I remember correctly.

It’s more a brand based prejudice, than an actual difference in the cars.

40

True enough. The Toyota Corolla oftentimes received higher marks than the Chevy Nova/Geo Prizm/Chevy Prizm that was made of the same basic materials and assembled in the same factory. Many consumers had difficulty believing that anything purchased at a Chevy store could even approach Toyota quality.

On a side note, many consumers will report a defect in a properly functioning feature on a survey if its proper operation is never explained to the consumer.