Dinsdale - you’re the bassist; you play bluegrass. I am a meat-and-potatoes guitarist with rock bands in my story. i.e., I am just thinking out loud here and please stick with what you know works for you.
Metronome - key. Keeps you honest, especially if you tend to gallop, and you piss off your lead players
You lock on a Mando. Is that your best option? I don’t speak Bluegrass, but I can see where the “Mandolin Chop” is a pure rhythm move, but when they switch to lead, they step into a completely different headspace.
Instead, can you find a pure rhythm player who is reasonably loud, like a rhythm guitarist or a strummy banjo player?
Better yet - both! Do you talk with any mates prior to playing to work things out? If you, a guitarist and a banjo player agree to triangulate, and then when you start a song, you check in with each other like I describe above, that could work, yes? And if you triangulate, then if one drops out to play lead, you can make eye contact with the other person and ensure you can carry it without the lead player for now.
I meant to respond to your comment about keeping it simple. Many times I’ll make an effort to see how FEW notes I can play. Generally, things sound the better for it.
A big part of my difficulty is that most of my playing is in unstructured jam sessions. You take turns around the circle for who calls the next song, and there’s never any guarantee which instruments will show up.
In a lot of BG/folk/old-time jams, the problem is you just get a bunch of guitarists strumming along snoozily. We don’t have that problem. Last Sat I think there were 5 fiddles at one time, and at no time did guitars outnumber banjos or mandos. Which is cool.
I got really lucky falling in with these guys. Many of them are REALLY good. Plenty of folk to fill space and show off. What they REALLY want is someone to keep a solid beat. Which is what I bring. And believe me, most of these guys are really appreciative of what I bring. It is really weird, I’m just thumping along on the I-V, while these guys are doing things I can’t even imagine, and afterwards they’ll tell me how I kicked ass. Or if I miss a session, they’ll tell me how much they missed me. THEY really know how much more they need a bass than another hotshot.
Mandos can generally be depended on the most solidly to chop - and some chop better than others. Some fiddles chop really well, but ususally not for prolonged periods. I’ve got a couple of rhythm guitarists who “boom-chuck” solid as a rock - but IMO solid rhythm guitarists are rarer than strong leads.
It is always weird to me when a guy who chops rock solid takes off at rocket speed on his lead. So then - if I have my head in the game - I switch over to lock in with someone else. It is usually not a problem if the lead goes on his own, and everyone else stays with me. But often one or 2 folk will speed up with the lead, and it feels like the group will split. So I have to decide whether I go along with them, or whether I try to slow things down. So if I slow things down myself, there can be three tempos going…
Hmm. Have you explicitly asked them if they notice that the groove wavers when lead players change? Can you get one or two players that the others see as leaders to agree to key back in on you and confirm the groove after every lead change? A quick bit of eye contact and an extra-forceful strum or two where you lean in, get everyone’s attention and re-set the groove could work…
Well, it’s a jam. I’m not sure how much constructive criticism can be handed out at one of those without driving people off. When you’re in a band, you can just straight up complain during practice. If you have a point, you probably won’t get kicked out.
I didn’t think of Dinsdale’s special position when I blabbed about it seeming strange to practice with a metronome. Usually, a bass player has a drummer to contend with. How fast you go is a matter of negotiating. Unless Dinsdale has a personality disorder that I’m unaware of, he’s got no one to negotiate with. Rock solid, and all alone? I’m surprised you don’t provide yourself with a click track. (yes, yes, in the end that’s even more complexity)
But when there’s a drummer around (ok, all the time), I see myself as a diplomat between the guitars and the drums. Not only do lead instruments have a tendency to rush in most situations, but the drummer gets physically beaten (I don’t even know if I’m punning there) by his instrument more than most of us. Rushing 1 or 2 songs has a much greater toll on him than the rest of us, so I have to trust him. He knows the next song on the set list, and whether he has to preserve his stamina. Between a good drummer being a good conductor, and me leading into chords at the right time, we can usually control a set of guitarists pretty well. Unless he or I is the idiot that’s rushing and one of us can’t slow without breaking the beat.
Plus, bass players in rock bands always seem to be standing stage left, off of the ride cymbal of right-handed drummers. If sticks are gonna sail, intentional or not, it’s gonna be at us. Gotta be diplomatic with that guy.
Yeah, basically that. It is supposed to be fun and casual. I sure don’t want to come off as the critical jerk. Another problem is that in an acoustic jam it can be hard for everyone to hear everyone else.
But when I identify such a ridiculously circumscribed role, I take it more to heart than I ought when things aren’t rock-solid beginning to end. And I’m probably hypercritical about it too. Guarantee the audience doesn’t hear it.
I’ve been playing regularly with a mando/banjo player. In the new year we might try to pick up a fiddle and a guitar, and see how tight we can play. But everyone is so busy…
Believe me - I have no problem getting peoples’ attention. When we are all acoustic, NO ONE can project like the bass. And if they STILL won’t listen, I can always start slapping! :eek:
Isn’t that almost the worst part, and the saving grace to playing live? If it’s not recorded, and if everyone hit the changes right, as long as the beat wasn’t broken, everything else seems forgiven.
In my case, my new band played its first show last weekend. I know that the singer played the wrong intro to song #4 on the set list, and we all flubbed the breakdown on song #6. Even though my own wife wouldn’t have noticed the mistakes in the show: you feel all nervous and shaky while setting up, and playing the set goes by like a lightning bolt. When you’re done, you’re picking apart the show, wondering what vacations might be noticed, while folks you don’t know are coming by and complimenting you on the show. It’s all kind of surreal.
Yeah, a lot of tunes are in G, but probably no more than 1/3 of them. Fiddles tend to like playing in A and D. They generally hate C, but a lot of folk like to sing in C. Friggin guitarists just capo to wherever they want. And the damned banjo is out of tune no matter what key you are trying to play in! I’d probably say 2/5 G, and 1/5 each D, A, C.
Basically, we play in whatever key the person calling the tune wants to sing it or play it in. If you are playing a fiddle tune, you want it to be in a key the fiddle wants to play it in. There are a relatively few in E, even fewer in B flat. Not too many in F. One mando worked out the uptempo Ricky Skaggs intro to Walls of Time in B, so that’s where we play it. I think that’s the only one we do in B.
Me, I’ve got a vocal range of about 1/2 an octave. So when I call a song I want to sing, I call whatever key will be least likely to make peoples’ ears bleed.
You talk about the beat not being broken scabpicker - I’ve often heard it said in BG bass that WHAT you play is WAY less important that WHEN you play it…
But I got an acoustic bass (one of these) as an early Christmas present, and in these few weeks it has brought me great joy.
My wife is a skilled pianist and has always provided the music for the church services, but I have never been able to accompany her, as the combination of guitar + piano is not as easy to execute without stepping on each other.
Now, for the first time in 25 years, my wife and I can play together for the entire service. I had several people approach me after the service each week and tell me how happy they were to see us playing together.
(yes, yes, in the end that’s even more complexity)
