Why don't homeless people go to shelters or get government assistance?

I go to university in Toronto, and coming from a close by, less crowded city, the homeless were an unusual sight. What makes me wonder is that Canada has a decent welfare system as (I think) there are shelters for these people, so why don’t these people make use of them?

Don’t know about Canada, but in New York, the homeless people I have seen interviewed, feel that they are safer in the streets than in a shelter.

Really? I’ve never seen what a Toronto shelter looks like, but I had the impression that it would provide decent housing (or shelter), food, and employment resources.

I am remembering the New York winters, where a certain temperature would allow the police to herd the homeless out of their cardboard boxes, off the subway grates and the vestibules of buildings. Some were forcibly put into vans and taken to city run shelters. These shelters were essentualy gymnasium floors, filled with cots, that were pretty well jammed together. Security is weak, to say the least. The people interviewed on nightly news programs, were really pissed that they were being forced to’ save themselves’ from the cold. They complained of bullying, theft of property. fist fights, drunk or drugged people. When cameras panned over the crowd, you could see single mothers with children. I think if people had decent shelter, food, and employment resources…as you said… they wouldn’t BE homeless. There is a large group of homeless advocates in N.Y., that can’t seem to stay away from controversy and scandal. It ain’t Toronto. :frowning:

Most cities experience overcrowding in shelters when weather is life threatening and much lower occupancy normally. Why?

Shelters prohibit drug and alcohol use, sometimes require that patrons accept counseling, etc.

At the same time, they have some violent and mentally ill patrons in a relatively confined space and are not the safest place around.

You can always find a few sob stories for the evening news but a great number of homeless people have real problems that make them less than desirable to be around - even for other homeless people. Just putting a roof over their heads doesn’t solve the problem.

A good deal of homeless are mentally ill; a schizophrenic would be wary of any government intervention in their lives. Others are just too proud (or stubborn) to take advantage of these services, as many do just fine on their own.

A lot of people do use shelters. You’re seeing the people who don’t.

  1. They may be scared of the shelter or the other residents.
  2. They might be mentally ill or substance abusers–both are highly correlated with homelessness and can keep a person for utilizing services effectively.
  3. They might have been banned from the shelter for bad behavior.
  4. They might be passing through or unaware of local resources.
  5. They may be wanted for criminal activity.
  6. They many not want to go to a shelter.
  7. They may have somewhere to sleep, even if the sign they’re holding up says “homeless–please help.”
  8. They may be afraid that id they go to the shelter their kids will be taken away from them.
  9. The shelter space may not be sufficient for the demand.

Boy oh boy, you like easy questions don’t you. Sociologists and others would be very interested in the answer when you get it. :wink:
Headcoat hit on part of it, but there’s a lot more. Many many reasons, not all of them negative.
I’ll be hanging around for more opinions.
Peace,
mangeorge

What Headcoat said. The large majority of the chronically (not temporarily) homeless are dealing with mental problems or addictions, and entering shelters or getting help involves a step many of them cannot, or are not willing to, take if it involves confronting these issues.

Nobody knows. Every year in Omaha it seems a few homeless men die on the streets or die because of the streets. Had a guy last year that the cops tried to get to go to a shelter, but the shelter didn’t allow drugs and wine, so he refused to go for 2 nights in a row. He lost his legs to frost bite and a week later he died of complications. Sad.

Some shelters, not all, are pretty bad. And dangerous.

I’ve read - no cite, sorry - that one other thing can be if the persson is somehow or other surviving andalso heas, say, a pet dog, well the helter is not going to take the dog, and if it is the person’s company and friendship…no shelter.

Not sure how many people that cn applly to, but, as has been said, there are many reasons.

I imagine that lots of people would dislike the feeling of becoming inssitutionalised into a government-run hostel.

Thanks for all the replies in this thread, and my double post. :expressionless:

If a mod is reading this, is there any way to merge this topic with the one here:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=211930 ?

Seeing homeless people asking for spare change on the street made me think to myself that if I were homeless I would go to a shelter and even try to find a job. That’s probably very hard for a homeless person, and this make me think… Why won’t the government hire them for simple jobs, like garbage collecting? It doesn’t need training, all you got to do is provide them with a simple uniform, and that’s one less person standing on a street corner begging for money.

I know in some cities (like Vancouver) they do this, but it looks like they hire people who could probably find a job somewhere else. Why not help out the environment AND help out the homeless people? The concept is so simple, I’m surprised that I don’t see cities doing it.

And, I feel awful for thinking this, but I actually used to give money out regularly, until I found out that some homeless people are alcoholics and spend their money on that garbage. The last time I gave money was last week when I gave $2 to a guy opening a door at Tim Horton’s for me. He had been at the door for a while and after he got my money (I would’ve liked a thank you, but whatever) he left to go somewhere. I wondered what he was going to spend it on…

Ah, I just remembered something else.

If it’s a “pride” issue, as in, they don’t want to get government help (no offence to them but) what’s so great about begging for money? :-\ I don’t see how the pride explanation would work.

I worked at a regional welfare office ( in Canada, no less). Numbers 1-3 seemed to be the most common reasons, with 1 and 2 often blending. A few people were afraid of shelters because of mental illness. There was one particular, very religious and polite old gentleman who absolutely could not stand to sleep inside of a building. When the police would pick him up for the night, he’d pile all the movable furniture in the cell into a corner and curl up in the opposite corner, on the floor. He couldn’t abide normal shelter service.

Number 7 was common too. But that’s another problem altogether.

I’d be surprised if the employees, many of them long term, of various municipal waste collection departments endorse that idea.

Shoshana makes some very good, valid points. I happen to live in a homeless shelter - Website: http://www.hospitality.cc, so I’ll add some comments to Shoshana’s points:

  1. While violence isn’t a problem at my shelter, I have heard some stories about other shelters - mostly in bigger cities - where it is a factor. I imagine that some of the local street people might simply assume that our shelter is not safe, based on their experiences with other shelters.

  2. Our shelter, like most, has a strict ban on alcohol & drug use. If you stay here, you must remain drug- and alcohol-free. If you use, you’re out for 30 days. A non-resident who shows up under the influence, say for a meal, is turned away, though they’re welcome to come back the next day if they’re sober. One reason for all this is that many of us who live here are recovering alcoholics/addicts who are struggling to stay clean. The presence of drunk or high individuals is detrimental to that goal.

As to the mental health issue - most homeless shelters, including ours, have no resources to deal with severely mentally ill people. Part of the reason is money - most shelters are severely underfunded. Obviously, a shelter with a large number of people sleeping in the same room cannot have a potentially disruptive mental patient in the group. So when possible, a shelter will try to connect the person with the appropriate agency, but of course we cannot force them to get help.

  1. This happens a lot. As previously mentioned, drug or alcohol use will get a person barred; violence or other antisocial behavior will get a person barred; theft will get a person permanently banned - there’s really nothing worse in a place like this, stealing from people who have almost nothing. Also, most shelters with “permanent” residence options will require some form of payment - either money if the person gets a job, or in the form of doing work in and around the shelter to contribute to upkeep and operations. And some people simply prefer to live on the street than work.

  2. This happens a lot. In fact, until our shelter was built, there was nothing in this city for the homeless. Our founder was travelling through town, and encountered a homeless man sleeping under a bush in a park. He wanted to help the man, and searched for a place where the man could spend the night. He found absolutely nothing, and ended up putting the the guy up in a motel. Then he decided to build this shelter. But it is kind of hard to find. Shelters aren’t always in obvious locations - cities businesses don’t like putting a homeless shelter right downtown, because [sarcasm] it will attract undesireable elements [/sarcasm] So we’re stuck just outside the city limits, down in a hole that used to be a landfill.

  3. While our shelter does not routinely provide a list of names to the authorities, we’re legally obligated to assist the police if they come looking for a specific individual. If a crime has been committed and the police have reason to believe that it was a transient or other homeless person, they’ll come a-knocking. So this fear is somewhat justified.

  4. There are a surprising number who honestly prefer to live outdoors. Sure, they’ll come around at mealtimes, but they never even ask about moving in. Of course, in most cases these are people who simply don’t wish to give up the booze or drugs, but there are exceptions.

  5. Yeah, not all homeless are really homeless. And believe it or not, some of those people with signs are honest-to-goodness scammers. A few years ago, I spotted a guy sitting at the entrance to supermarket parking lot, holding a sign that read, “Homeless Vietnam veteran.” The guy was wearing what appeared to be brand-new camouflage fatigues from the army surplus store. And he didn’t look a day older than me - and I was about seven years old when the USA pulled out of Vietnam :wink: I, and the other shelter residents who were with me looked at him and said “Riiiiiight…”

  6. Kids taken away? I suppose that might be a problem in some places, but not here. Unless there is some other reason to take the kids away.

  7. Space is a big consideration. Our shelter has about 100 beds, and we can put guys on the floor in an emergency. But, even homeless shelters are subject to fire codes and maximum occupancy regulations.

I should’ve worded it better. Not really garbage collecting, but litter collecting. From what I know, garbage collectors (the ones that use garbage trucks) do not pick up litter in public areas, such as parking lots and parks.

BTW, thanks for all the replies. :slight_smile:

Thanks for your post, Phase42. It confirms my thoughts that some percentage of the “homeless” actually prefer that state of being while others are not really adaptable to the shelter environment.

Those, I would think, are the core of the “permanentaly” homeless, while the rest are constituted by those whose circumstances have been extremely unfortunate, and/or are striving to recover from a substance abuse situation. That latter group are the ones that I’d guess eventually do move out of the homeless class.

I stand to be corrected, as the above is all speculative, Good luck with it, Rik.

Yep. I have merged the two thread.

bibliophage
moderator GQ