Why don't monarchs have nicknames anymore?

I was sitting here musing on Richard the Lionhearted and John Lackland and Charles the Bald and Pepin the Short, and I was wondering, why don’t monarchs have nicknames anymore? When did they stop? Did they acquire them during their lifetime, or afterwards? Did popes ever have nicknames?

And to make this thread funny, let’s think of some. (Elizabeth II the Prissy, Juan Carlos the Museum-goer…)

They have nicknames. So do prominent Americans like Slick Willy. You need to read some British (and other) scandal sheets.

You know what I mean. I’m talking royal epithets here, along the lines of the examples I gave (Louis the Well-Beloved and whatnot).

Monarchs are no longer the movers and shakers they once were. I think Edward Longshanks aquired his name during life because he was a tall 6 foot 4 or so. On the other hand we do give nicknames to leaders, at least in this country we do. Reagan was known as the Teflon President and of courser Clinton is known as Slick Willie.

Marc

Does this mean that what sounds like a nickname was in fact really just a nickname (except often more complimentary)? Hmmm… That seems odd to me, because I remember reading about some despot or other (I think in France) who nonetheless was called “the Well-Beloved”.

The king of Sweden is generally known as “Knugen”, ie “The Knig”, as a result of a joke that was told about him when he was a child. The story goes that he once wrote in a school essay “All my classmates make fun of me because I have difficulties with reading and writing. Just they wait till I become knig!”

Prince Andrew: Randy Andy
Prince Charles: Gnarley Charlie

We’ve got too many celebrities now, I think. Before the wonderful days of mass media, there were not too many people everyone knew and talked about. How can monarchs compete these days? Furthermore, we know so much more of the intimate details of the lives of the rich and powerful. How could any of them live up to their positive nicknames ? If the nickname was bad, I’m sure there would be apologists to put a less controversial spin on things.

If Ivan the Terrible had today’s spin doctors, certainly he would have been Ivan the Tough But Fair, or Ivan the Terribly Compassionate.

A couple I have heard for Queeen Elizabeth:

Mrs Majesty

Queen Bessie of Bucking-Huge Palace

Most US presidents have nicknames. A list of presidential nicknames appears every now and then. Does George Bush have a nickname?

Junior or Senior? I don’t recall any for Pops, but his offspring is either “Dubya” or “Shrub” (I prefer the latter).

Elizabeth the mildly boring?

Charles the uncalled upon?

There aren’t enough kings and such around to need to differentiate just which one you are referring to. If Harry the Bold is bold enough, he could start a constitutional crisis, and end up Harry the Last.

Tris

I’m not sure that all these nicknames were actually used during each monarch’s lifetime. I’m pretty sure nobody called Charles le Gros (the Fat) that name to his face. I’ve always understood the nicknames were either given by the the succeeding generations (like Peter the Great), or they were used as prejoratives on the sly (like Constantine Copronymous, a.k.a. Constantine the Pisser).

So, to answer your question, monarchs do have nicknames; we just don’t go printing them on official documents.

Many of the nicknames in the OP are hardly the sort a king would ask to have attached as a moniker. The clearly are true nicknames, that is, descriptive words attached to the main name to clarify which “Louis” or “Charles” was being referred to. I doubt Pepin the Short relished the title, and being referred to as “the Fat” or “the Bald” hardly would endear a subject to his king. As for John Lackland, well, poor John had a number of troubles; his late-coming status as prince and the fact there wasn’t anything left to give him (according to his many detractors) was the least of his worries, though you’ll note HE made the throne where two of his brothers didn’t.

Some other appellations, of course, occur after the fact. Alfred wasn’t “the Great” in his lifetime, and Phillip II “Augustus” wouldn’t have been compared to the Caesars until very late in his life at best.

As for current royalty, they don’t do anything to warrant nicknames, though Charles the Bignose might certainly do a good job of differentiating him from others with that name. :wink:

I do not know if it ever caught on or was just a passing thing but I remember Juan Carlos being called “the democrat” for a while after his coronation. Those that were hoping he would be a continuation of the Franco regime used it in a derogatory manner when they saw he was for democracy and those who were for democracy used it as praise. I wonder if it stuck or if it disappeared after things in Spain settled down and it was obvious the dictatorship was as dead as the dictator.

Not related but I was just reminded of a story I read. In late 19th century India, some local native with very poor English was doing the best he could to chat with some Englishman and not show too much ignorance about British affairs. A little embarrassed he asked: “And who is the King of England nowadays?” to which the Englishman replied “Queen Victoria” and the man says “Ahhhh, yesss,… Queen Victoria… a very fine King”.

Which in turn reminds me of a situation I saw here in DC some years ago. I went to the DMV to contest a ticket and we were herded in groups of about 6 or 8 into a room with a hearing officer. In my group there was a Vietnamese old man who spoke hardly any English. Probably someone had told him to address the officer as “sir” and not to forget that. But the officer was a woman. Since he could hardly understand any questions, he would just repeat “Yes ,sir”. So she says “You call me M’am” and he says “yes sir”. She insists: “YOU (points at him) call ME (points at herself) M’AM, yes?” He thinks he’s got it: “Yes, SIR, M’am, sir!”

So in spite that the hearing was a pure formality and all fines were confirmed, we all had a good time and a few laughs.

But to get back to the OP. I wonder if some of those nicknames were not contemporary but given but later historians.

A trivia question just ocurred to me. I believe king Juan Carlos is the first Spanish king to adopt two names as king (or a compound name if you prefer to call it that) and pope John Paul is also the first pope in history to do this… I wonder if this is true and if there are other examples.

I wonder if this makes them stand out from the rest of the common crowds of kings and popes and therefore less likely to be given nicknames.

Hmmm…royal nicknames?
Well, this isn’t too recent, but here you have them:
Edward VII of England was known as The Peacemaker, Uncle of Europe, and Edward the Caresser
His mother, Queen Victoria, was known as Grandmamma of Europe
Nicholas II of Russia was known unfairly as Nicholas the Hangman, and Bloody Nicholas.

Which was the royal called Her/His Royal Shyness? Was it Diana, or was it her son?

The Duchess of York-“Fergie”

Ludwig II of Bavaria was known as the Mad
King Christian IX was known as Grandfather of Europe (his children included Queen Alexandra of England, King George I of Greece, and Empress Maria Feodorovna of Russia)

I think they called Kaiser Wilhelm II’s wife, Empress Augusta Victoria, the Cow from Holstein (Bismarck did, anyway)

Tsar Alexander II was known as The Tsar-Liberator, because he abolished serfdom

And then there are their family nicknames, Lilibet, Wills, etc.

The last post made me think of another point to make. Nicknames for monarchs were popular during the time that not everyone had a formal last name. People were still going by “Joe, Bob’s Son” or “Jack the Miller”, so it would have been more acceptable to call a king by a memorable nickname (John Lackland being a good example). As people stopped referring to themselves in this fashion, so they stopped doing the same to their rulers. Now you just have somewhat informal names, like Princess Di or Slick Willie.

But probably not during his lifetime. He was deposed, pronounced insane (on rather dubious testimony from disgruntled ex-employees) and either killed himself or was murdered a few days later.

Ludwig was certainly considered eccentric – his hobbies included castle building and dressing up as a nun – and he believed himself the reincarnation of Louis the Sun King… and also to be Lohengrin the Swan Knight… and possibly several other Wagnerian characters. His tastes ran to the fantastical baroque, and he seemed to think that if less was more, then more must be even better, and that one could never have too many gilded nymphs. :slight_smile:

{Sorry, minor side-jack, just been reading about him…}

I was always partial to this explanation of William the Conquerer’s war and victory at the Battle of Hastings:

William the Bastard decided he needed a new name.

:slight_smile: