17? ok, I stopped reading, and my only participation will be:
Timo, are you here to bolster you faith by blandly quoting the bible in the hope YOU will ever understand it? Are you trying NOT to be a dreaded atheist? Take a few years and see what you believe later.
You are spouting nonsense to those that know better.
Timo- there are more than 7 billion people in the world. I want you to imagine all the millions of 17 year old kids among those 7 billion people- there are thousands (probably tens or hundreds of thousands!) of Muslim 17 year olds who have as strong a faith in Allah, the Koran, and Islam, as you do in Jesus, the Bible, and Christianity. Many of these Muslim kids view Christianity in the same way you view Islam. The same is obviously true of thousands upon thousands of Hindu, Buddhist, and Jewish 17 year olds with regards to their religion, their holy texts, and their divine figures.
Imagine all those 17 year olds are here with you in this thread- all making arguments quoting from their holy books about what we should believe. What is there to distinguish you and Christianity? There are thousands of 17 year old Jews, Muslims, and Hindus who say they’ve had personal experiences with their deity of choice- that they’ve received comfort, aid, etc., from their deity/religion…
Think about why all these other 17 year olds believe the way they do- in all likelihood, most of them were taught by their parents and community- just like you were. Their faith, experience, and religiosity are just as “real” as yours- they truly believe, just like you do.
What makes your experiences special? Why was your religious upbringing correct, but all these other 17 year old kids’ was incorrect? If there was a tragic accident after your birth, and you were brought up by a different family with a different religion, how do you know you wouldn’t be just another one of these 17 year olds with a powerful belief in Allah/Yahweh/Krishna/etc?
I’ll take those. Were we both fully dressed?
I kind of like the statue of Ganesh in Digger. The idea of having a Remover of Obstacles is tempting, and it was a respectful, logical, and helpful not-quite-god.
Wow. 7 pages arguing with a true believer. Really?
Some (many?) of you are trying to convince Timo to see things logically when you know full well he (or she) didn’t get to where he is by employing logic, and that he believes in his god despite any and all evidence to the contrary. In fact, the more you try to convince Timo of the errancy of his beliefs, the more convinced he will be that they are true, but you know this too. He’s being castigated for quoting bible verses when it is abundantly clear that he doesn’t know any other way to respond. He can’t adequately answer your questions; he believes because he believes.
Yeah, I know, he started the thread, but after 7 pages it’s beginning to seem more like an unnecessary piling on than an engagement, and some of you are becoming angry. For what?
It would be cruel to turn this into a retread of the JOSH threads. I recommend leaving the kid be. He’ll either wake up on his own, or he won’t; you certainly won’t argue his beliefs out of him…and you know this too.
It was liberating to leave all religion and superstition. For many years it was an I don’t care attitude. I think I took the leap of faith due to the internet. Because people do not talk about religion or atheism IRL.
As an aside, I was never a creationist.
I assume you’re taking this quote to heart?
Ylarria, Quicksilver - I was in my 30s (low 30s) dressed and in north america as well - it was as if the shackles had been lifted from my shoulders.
The 52! is a nice little factorial to save a whole lot writing. I think I see how you’re doing it now, so the first shuffle is a freebie. The site I looked at calculated the first shuffle, and used that number: 80658175170943878571660636856403766975289505440883277824000000000000 as the amount of possible different combinations by a deck of 52 cards. But even if you use that number, you don’t count the first shuffle, but simply show that is the odds of the second shuffle matching the first, and if so, I believe I now see why you only square it to get the third shuffle.
I had been impressed with your responses because you seemed genuine and willing to try and listen. So I thought your pit thread might have been out of line. But with this portion of your quote, I now see they were right.
You just want to get your heavenly rewards for doing your part, whether it was received because you did a poor job or not. And then the fact that you’d be dripping with glee as, in your words, everyone will get their deserved punishment from God for not listening.
Here’s one parting shot for you to not consider: What if some other God ends up being in charge and he’s not amused that you so blindly followed someone else? Then you’ll be the one standing in the very position that you look forward to for others.
Dear God, protect me from your followers. They have no idea how much they hurt your cause, themselves and everyone else.
No, it can’t. You can’t even get past the first few chapters without a glaring contradiction. How was Eve ‘created’? From Adam’s rib or at the same time? It then goes downhill from there.
The concept of god is a leftover from an ignorant age before we understood how things worked.
I was never as happy while I was searching for religion because I thought I had to. It was truly liberating when I was able to get rid of that albatross and put god on the same shelf as fairies and Bigfoot.
I couldn’t even get past the first verse being a contradiction when I read the older Hebrew used gods instead of God.
Timo:
Read the Book of Job. That was the one that showed me that the Bible may have been inspired by God but it was certainly written by men.
In short, it addresses the question of why bad things happen to good people. If God’s own book cannot come up with a better answer than “God had a bet with Satan, and how dare *you *complain about it” then there is no better answer to be found.
To cut to the chase, I am now UU. I do still expect to be judged after this life, but I have faith that “form of worship” is not 75% of our final grades. I will continue to try to be a good person regardless, since why should I make other people miserable just because the Ruler of the Universe is presented as a narrow-minded jerk?
Yeah, no I see what you mean, haha you hit the jackpot. However, I feel that no matter how much effort is tried, it’ll never get through to them. Plus, I need to learn about other religions to better understand and strengthen the claim that God is real. I wasn’t going to respond after the last post, but I just have to say that you’re right, and it was wrong of me to show satisfaction when the day comes. However, is it not true from the Bible that everyone will be punished for rebuking the truth? It’s not that I’m trying to do a poor job, or do anything just to get treasure in Heaven, because that kind of work will not be given eternal treasure. It’s just that I’ve been so frustrated that I have no real proof besides verses from the Bible to claim that God is real and my own personal, yet small, experiences, along with some posts that imply insanity. I’m just mad that all it takes is a leap of faith, to ask God to show himself with a genuine heart, and you’ll understand the verses and experience God personally. But I know they’re not going to be willing unless they can prove God through complex thoughts, logic, or physical proof. And I don’t blame them, I would have asked the same. It’s only reasonable. But when it comes to God, I don’t think you can reason your way into believing.
To me, from my perspective, because I’m a believer, all the verses make sense. Satan is hindering you from understanding. All you need to do is take a leap of faith, a genuine one. If you take the leap of faith and get baptized, He’ll send you the Holy Spirit. And your eyes will be open. And your relationship with God starts there. He’ll guide you through.
To the parting shot that I should not consider: I’d be willing to take that risk. And who knows, maybe I will be standing there, while others stand there in glee. However, the personal experiences I’ve had, is enough to stand my ground.
Three in one thread. I think it’s officially a thing if it’s more than two, right?
I’d just like to add…
If let’s say God wasn’t true, what would be the harm in baptizing yourself and finding out that it wasn’t true for yourself? What would be the harm in asking God to be real in your life? Of course, you must be genuine when you ask. But what harm could come across if you just took a second, and genuinely asked. If you did, and God did not do anything, then how are you to be blamed? You asked genuinely, God didn’t respond. You prayed for it. He didn’t answer.
Then I’d think you’d be just in saying, I asked for you to come into my heart God, I prayed to you for it, genuinely, but you didn’t answer.
Why genuinely? because God knows our hearts. God knows when we’re real or fake. But I don’t think it’s hard to be genuine about praying to God to be real, to develop a relationship with Him, if the path of your life eternally is at risk.
Now you’ve gone and done it and have blood on your hands. Look at how many you just murdered. Just think of how many you could have saved, if you had only kept your mouth shut.
Eskimo: If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?
Priest: No, not if you did not know.
Eskimo: Then why did you tell me? –Anne Dillard
Overall, you seem like a nice enough person to me, Timo, so I’ll overlook some of your comments. And no, we won’t see in the end and neither will you if we are right.
For one thing I’d be wasting my time: think about how many religions you’d have to include to cover your bases. More importantly, why should I consider the possibility that baptizing myself would accomplish anything? If you don’t start with the presumption that God is real, or might be real, what’s the point?
I doubt very much you’ll find exactly what you’re looking for, but it’s not a bad idea just the same.
Haha nice one. I think one of the benefits of knowing God though on earth is your chance to store your eternal treasures in Heaven. Again, as was pointed out above, would God be a fool to allow people who preach unwillingly or do anything with an unwilling heart and reward them in Heaven?
So if I were to do this with an unwilling heart, my time would be wasted, I would not, and hopefully I’m doing this with a willing heart haha, be rewarded.
But yeah, there are downfalls to knowing God. haha… but then again, If we never preach for fear of sending people to hell, how will the gospel be spread? If I’m not going to spread it, someone else will. Our world will never rid of God or the debate of whether God exists.
So, false prophets and those who preach hatred and intolerance in the Name of God are doomed to Hell?
Well, if they’re going against the Bible… is that really of God?
If they’re preaching hatred and intolerance… Is that really of God?
I could say that I would preach hatred and intolerance in the name of you, but would that be true?
I’d just like to add, that they’re going against God’s word, if they do preach such. I mean… assuming their preaching of hatred and intolerance is extreme…
I mean, we all make mistakes, but God can forgive. We are not to judge others, because we’re just as bad. Only God can judge. We all sin, we all struggle with different sins. Who’s to say who can go to Heaven, since we all shouldn’t go to Heaven in the first place.