Firstly, this is only true if you’re talking about a set of things that is mutually exclusive . Many Hindus, for instance, are quite happy to pray to photographs of Krishna and Jesus kept side by side.
Secondly, and this is far more important, how do you decide whether something is true or not? How do you help others reach your conclusion? Your best answer to “Why do you believe in God” in this thread was “Personal revelation”. That is an acceptable reason for you to believe in God, though not a good one. It is NOT an acceptable reason for someone else to believe in your God, no matter how much you badger them over it. For that, you have to offer up evidence, and good, strong evidence at that. Which no one in the world has yet done.
I find it at the very least impractical that God is constantly testing people’s faiths by manipulating daily events but does rarely/never manipulates events for other purposes.
No…but temptation isn’t the same as a test. In the verse you provided, it specifically said temptation. In the verses I provided, it specifically said tests. Those are different.
Yes, maybe a test may have temptations in it, but does that mean those temptations came from God? or you? God just put like… a girl in front of a person…and that person might have lusted. Was it God’s fault that that person lusted? No, it was a test, He just let a girl walk past that person, but that person gave into his sin.
God could let a girl walk past another person, but that person might not lust. So it is us that allow ourselves to be tempted. We each have our own flaws and sins and temptations.
Well… I wouldn’t say that it’s a requirement, but it’s how you receive the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit brings understanding and truth. At least understanding in spiritual verses and such.
On a cross when Jesus died, there were two sinners next to Him. One asked Jesus to forgive him right there and then, the other mocked, and Jesus told the one that asked for forgiveness that He would go to Heaven with Him.
Something like that. I don’t believe that it says that the man was baptized.
Didn’t answer the question - is God testing you or not? Testing/Tempting in these cases is one and the same - no amount of blather will change that.
Unless you are qualifying a ‘test’ as in how Job was ‘tested’ - something I think there is reference to God saying he would never allow to happen again.
God has to let a girl walk past you? The girl can’t just be trying to get somewhere? God manipulated real world events just to test you and see what your resolve is?
Then you have to not just ignore your biological reaction which is solely dependent on chemicals reacting within your brain. Not just ignore. Ignoring is not enough. You have to deny it outright?
All the while, atrocities that dwarf your impure thoughts run rampant and unchecked? Or are those just simply bigger tests which man has failed? There is a connection between God tempting you with a pretty girl and God tempting murderers, rapists, and thieves? Everything that happens is a test? Or is it simply things that happen?
Maybe he does test us all. But those who don’t believe wouldn’t think those tests to be of Him, but maybe of karma or a coincidence?
I think the point is that people tend to believe that once they’re Christian they will leave a peaceful life. For doesn’t that kind of give us the feeling that because we live a peaceful life, we don’t need God? But that is surely not true. Because when we are tested, we are tested on our faith, we are tested to wonder if God even loves us, and if we overcome, and look back, we understand why we were tested. We grow stronger in the Lord. We grow stronger in our faith.
Something from a website that can explain it better. There was a link of the website posted in a different post.
A third purpose for stressful circumstances is to reveal true convictions. Our faith is tested in tough times. It’s easy to say, “God is good,” when life is peaceful. But when everything goes wrong, what do we believe about Him?** Do our words and actions reveal an attitude of trust?**
King David endured much heartache: a disintegrating family, personal attacks, and betrayal by close friends. But through his trials, he gained deeper intimacy with God, stronger faith, and more godly character. Won’t you let God accomplish His purposes in your present situation?
Returning believers to right fellowship is only one of God’s purposes for a season of trials. Some difficulties are meant to blow away all distractions so we can focus our attention on the Lord. Other “storms” break our worldly mold so that we can be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. Our personal pleasure is not the top priority. God’s primary concern is to shape a wise and obedient follower who loves Him.
One purpose God has for us is a growing intimacy in our relationship with Him. But He knows we struggle to put Him first over our interests. Many of us place higher priority on family and friends than on companionship with God. For others, finances, work, or even personal pleasures interfere. When the Lord sees that our attention is drifting away from Him, He might use hardships to draw us back so we’ll refocus.
and he was saying, “Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!” - All he did was ‘recognize’ that Jesus was Jesus - didn’t ask for forgiveness, didn’t believe in an afterlife - may not have even fully believed in God, etc - had never heard much of the message - simply said “remember me when” - so - an act of ‘faith’ to be sure - but none of the other trappings was required.
The correct answer of course, is John 3:16 - “who ever believes” - no requirements for baptism, nothing. Baptism is a ritual for you to show OTHERS that you are now ‘one of them’.
Okay, obviously you failed to see the point but you’re now directing to another problem. I was describing the difference between testing and temptations. And I just so happened to use an example that just crossed my mind.
Explain denying outright…you don’t have to run to each person and tell them how you’re not going to lust at the girl. Ignoring is enough… because you’re not letting yourself into that temptation when you ignore…
Do you have a conscience? I think that’s enough to guide you, as well as tests from God. Okay, so you’re saying that people are being forced to kill? people are being forced to rape? that’s what you believe? Because that is temptation, God does not tempt…
He tests, it’s different than temptation…
Or merely decisions that go hand-in-hand in being alive.
So God doesn’t actually provide any strength or benefit himself. It’s through faith alone that the one being tested draws strength and hinges his resolve. The choice is still up to the individual and that individual can break at any second given their faith in God. God does lend more help to those with less faith, or less help to those with more faith. The amount of faith that person is capable of is the only thing that separates failure from success. Sounds like more of a coping mechanism for stress than the act of a benevolent, omnipotent being.
The “mentally weak” and “naturally suspicious” are at a genetic disadvantage for salvation. Some people are more loss averse and on a biological level less likely to place faith in the unknown due to their brain chemistry. They’re born with it. Those people are categorically less inclined to act on faith alone, and they’re categorically less able to pass God’s tests. That hardly seems fair.
Okay, well when he said “Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!” obviously he believed that Jesus was the Son of God… Why would he say your kingdom? He did believe in the afterlife…He said remember me…which means he knew that Jesus was going to be alive after the earthly death in Heaven which means he does believe in the afterlife…
So maybe being baptized isn’t required, that’s why I used the example of the two thieves when Jesus died…
But I’m just saying, with** Baptism** comes the Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit can bring to light the Bible verses…The Holy Spirit can guide you. Think about it…The Triune…God, Holy Spirit, and Jesus. Maybe it’s not required…to have baptism, but in order to have the Holy Spirit, it’s called baptism. I don’t know how else you can receive the Holy Spirit, please find a verse that says otherwise.
Maybe the reason it isn’t required is because for like…emergency purposes such as those- like John 3:16, “whomever believes”. But if the Holy Spirit can help you get closer to God, why wouldn’t you want to be baptized? You can’t just get rid of the Holy Spirit which is part of the Triune. For they are all one…somehow…I still need to think on that one haha.
But that’s not the point. Maybe you don’t have to in order to get into Heaven, but if you wanted to know more about God, to develop your faith, to increase your understanding, why wouldn’t you want to? Do you want to stay clueless?
If he puts me in hardship (ala Job) - is that not tempting me to do ‘bad things’ in order to get out of the hardship? (aka, he causes me to lose my job and my belongings - forcing me to ‘beg’ on the street - and beggng is a crime and therefore a sin) - or am I supposed to prove I;'m faithful by ignoring medical treatment on faith that he will heal me himself?
where is the line drawn?
Any test worth itself will have options - if one of the options is ‘evil’ - then god has just tempted me with evil.
So, does God test/tempt us or not? which side of the bible is ‘true’ ?
And you still didnt answer if you believe the ‘Flood’ happened or not.
See. Now this would be the difference between someone taking a step even when doubtful, even when not fully having faith. You don’t have to understand everything about God before baptism, because, in a way, you never will.
all kinds of “what ifs and maybes” in there - where does it say that the only way to get the ‘holy spirit’ is thru baptism? You realize that baptism was going on before Christ, right? did those folks get their share of the HS? should we be followers of John instead?
As for what the theif did or did not believe - we do not know - maybe he just wanted Jesus to think someone was on his side? you know, an act of kindness…