Why don't people believe in God?

Great Debates
61

I don’t think you are or else, you would just ask questions. And in fact, you’re preaching.

There’s no reason to assume that a god, let alone a loving one, exists.

That would make sense if :

-There wasn’t any bad events that aren’t caused by humans. Why would children be killed by a Tsunami?

-God couldn’t at the same time grant free will and prevent evil from happening. And it’s what most Christians believe will happen in Heavens. You might not suscribe to this belief, but in this case, you have to assume that people in heavens have no free will.

That’s indeed sounds like a loving god…

I might not want him at home, but I wouldn’t sentence the worst criminal ever to an eternity of torment. Doing so would be evil beyond belief. Since you’re reasonning by analogy, who you torture your child for days on end because he disobeyed? I guess not. Nevertheless, what you’re saying your god does is immensely more evil. No (limited) fault can justly deserve an infinite torment.

It doesn’t really matter since according to your theology, Dahmer might very well be in Heavens if he repented right in time and his victims in hell if they didn’t before he murdered them. Again a great example of justice, isn’t it?

First I thought that your god was a toughest guy than that. So, somehow he can’t bear being in the presence of people who sinned? Even if for some reason he cannot, he could let them live a happy life outside his presence. Or just let them dead. Or punish them proportionnally to their crime. But he doesn’t. he chooses to have them tortured forever. Only a madman of incredible cruelty would do that. If your god exists and acts accoridng to what you said, he’s more evil than the worst human criminal of all times.

No. Only a fool would love someone he can’t see and interact with

I note that you didn’t explain here why god let terrible events happen. Evidence that everything is under control, please?

And look at a decaying body, at a puddle of mud and blood, at a starving child, at a tear on an elderly face, and tell yourself “there’s a god that made it all”. Inspiring, isn’t it?
I note that you have in fact shown no interest in actually asking why people don’t believe. My reason is much simpler than what you thought : I’ve no evidence that he exists, hence no reason to believe he does.

Lat me ask you a question too : why don’t you believe in Lord Shiva? Why don’t you pray to him?

62

If it was an easy thing to believe in God, then Believers would have no reason to feel virtuous and self-righteous, now would they?

63

Hm, never thought of it like that. Good point. But yeah, like what Qin Shi Huangdi said, there’s a verse in the bible about the potter and the clay. Maybe that’s a better example.

Jeremiah 18
“Family of Israel, you know that I can do the same thing with you. You are like the clay in the potter’s hands, and I am the potter.”

64

Do you not see the inherent silliness of quoting the Bible to prove that the god in that Bible exists? This type of post would only work if one already believed in the Bible, and if we already believed in the Bible we would already believe in some variant of your god.

Before you come in here and throw Bible verses around willy-nilly, it might behoove you to ask around and find out how many here have already read the book and still don’t believe in your particular deity.

65

What would you say if someone opened his heart to God but God did not reveal Himself to that person?

66

this is what happens when creationism is taught in schools.

i think we should all stop feeding him till he answers the question of why he chose Christianity over the other options.

Timo, why are you a Christian?

67

You can’t quote the Bible to prove the Bible. What else have you got that I can’t find in any other religion?

68

Jeremiah 9:23
Thus says the Lord: “Let not the wise man boast in his wisdom, let not the mighty man boast in his might, let not the rich man boast in his riches,

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Ephesians 2:9
Not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Proverbs 27:2
Let another praise you, and not your own mouth; a stranger, and not your own lips.

I think it’s tempting to do such, but we have to constantly remind ourselves that it’s not good to boast in oneself, because it can be harmful. That’s actually how Satan fell, from his pride. Besides, who likes a person that boasts? Basically, they shouldn’t be boasting or thinking that they are “virtuous” because of themselves.

69

Timo, If all you can bring to this argument is biblical quotes, you should know that these are absolutely worthless unless you first establish that the bible has any validity beyond what a bunch of ignorant sheepherders wrote down over 2000 years ago, an era marked by a remarkable lack of education and scientific knowledge, an era where what we would consider preposterous now was accepted as commonplace then, in spite of any good evidence. These people were amazingly gullible and uncritical. I’m sure you are aware of the great strides civilization and learning has made since?

Should we throw all that away just because your personal knowledge hasn’t progressed beyond 2000 years ago?

70

Timo, stop a moment and read the most recent page of responses.

71

Could you please respond to our queries instead of throwing Bible verses out there? I’ve read the book several times already.

72

Did you try to do that with Allah, Ahura Mazda, Vishnu, Amenominakanushi ? What harm can it do? Later, you’ll be able to decide for yourself.

73

And the OP’s version of god woudn’t even be nice. It would make things significantly worst IMO. So, not even that.

74

That’s a good question. Of the religious philosophies I’ve studied, the one I find most fulfilling (and I used to be Christian) is Buddhism. I’m not a good practitioner of it (it, of course, is not at all incompatible with being a UU), but to me its the only one that has a real chance of delivering on the inner peace thing. So, Timo, why aren’t you a Buddhist?

75

And to non-believers, they really are self referential meaningless drivel when used in a debate on the existence of God. There really should be a ten yard penalty every time a Bible verse is used to debate the existence of God.

76

Humans made science. And there’s no evidence for any gods at all, much less that they created anything.

I wouldn’t want them to be tortured forever; that’s infinitely worse than anything they ever did, or could have done.

I see no reason to consider the Christian god as is typically described to be anything other than a monster. And eternal pain isn’t “a bit much”, it’s infinitely much. By definition.

It can turn you into a monster, or cause you to harm yourself. Religion is destructive.

77

As at least one other poster said, why should I believe in any god? None of these stories make sense to me, and as far as I’m concerned a universe with gods makes much less sense than a universe without one.

I wouldn’t describe the Biblical God as loving. In the second half, maybe sometimes. In the first, uh, no. But your free will explanation isn’t satisfying anyway.

If I don’t believe in God, which I don’t, I wouldn’t take this threat seriously either. It only sounds like a real danger if you think there might be a God. You wouldn’t be scared if I said you were in danger of a leprechaun attack, would you?

It’d be nice if you actually answered this. Nobody ever does. :wink:

Why would he care about free will? He made it up in the first place. I admit this is about the best any religion can be expected to do with the facts at hand, but the truth is that it’s a weak explanation for the state of the universe.

Or be used to torment people psychologically.

Except your God isn’t required for any of those things. And I think those things are more enjoyable if you appreciate them on their own terms instead of viewing them as props.

78

Just for your information, evolution doesn’t disprove god. The wide majority of Christians around the world aknowledge evolution and believe in god. Only strict literalists (who are almost all Americans) believe that evolution is incompatible with Christian beliefs.

Yes. That would certainly be more just. Why would I care about Hitler if I’m in perpetual felicity? Especially after a couple billions years or so…

No loving parent could torture his children. If he does, it proves he isn’t loving. Since you probably know what love is, you certainly know that.

Besides, according to your religion, plenty of people who haven’t commited any serious crime, or even who have been exceptionnally good on earth will be in hell, while many murderers will be in Heavens. depending on whether they chose to worship your god, not depending on whether they have been good or evil. I still fail to see any justice in that.

79

I wasn’t taught about it in school. I don’t think that’s allowed in most public schools…I could be wrong. Maybe private ones though.

My mother is Christian that allowed introduced me to Him. I was basically dragged to go to church when I was young…haha. I also didn’t really understand it, but I didn’t really have a choice. To be honest, when I grew older, the only reason I still attended church was because of the people. I had friends, and it was fun. So…I slept sometimes through the messages because they were really long. Then my mom wanted me to be baptized at 13. At that time, it didn’t occur to me to want to be baptized. But to stop her nagging, I agreed. Haha, In fact, when a full-timer asked why I was baptized, I told him it was because Jesus was baptized at 13…which it totallly not true at aalllll.

So then I continued going to church, and what not. It was basically my mother’s God and not mine. There’s this saying in our church, that, although the same God, you want your own personal experience with God. And that’s what I didn’t really have. But through troubles in High School, where Junior and Senior year were the worst, I had to really lean on something to help me. So, I kind of thought, what the heck, and out of desperation, I just prayed to Him constantly. Prayers like, and not word for word, because I have no clue, but like small prayers, like when a full-timer would tell us to ask God to come into our lives or to be real to us, that’s what I did. The change didn’t come drastically, like it was a sudden life change, but it came eventually. Sometimes it felt like this, beautifully explained by him.

“The thought was involuntary and unwanted. I crowded it out of my mind. But I never wholly forgot it or the occasion. I had to crowd it out of my mind. If I had completed it, I should have had to say: Design presupposes God. I did not then know that, at that moment, the finger of God was first laid upon my forehead. - Whittaker Chambers”

This thought happened to him, I believe, when he looked at his daughter.

So as you can see, I didn’t really fully, consciously, acknowledge, or wholly believe that God was real. He was just my mother’s God. But it was the first step, of baptism, and then prayer, that allowed me to be Christian. It was definitely with his mercy. And not trying to be a drama queen or anything haha, but I feel this is important, and nobody that I know face to face knows this, but I definitely did try to commit suicide by hanging because of the emotional pain, but something inside me said no, it was just a stronger feeling than the emotional pain. So it wasn’t like I was introduced to any other religions before Christianity that allowed me to outweigh which religion was better or more logical. I don’t know, I feel like this is a bit too personal to share, but whatever. I’ll just click submit reply.

Just want to push something out there, if you do try to walk with God, to try to build a relationship with him, it doesn’t mean all worries will end. In fact, God

Prov 3:11-12
My son, do not despise the Lord’s discipline and do not resent his rebuke, because the Lord disciplines those he loves, as a father the son he delights in.

Job 1:21 -
“Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither. The Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away; blessed be the name of the Lord.”

James 1: 3
Be assured and understand that the trial and proving of your faith bring out endurance
and steadfastness and patience.

And if you are tested and wonder why this certain way is happening just remember

Psalm 18: 30
As for God, His way is perfect! The word of the Lord is tested and tried; He is a shield to all those who take refuge and put their trust in Him.

80

I don’t believe in god because i don’t need to. The Buddhist faith works for me with no gods required.