This is inappropriate for IMHO. Attack the poster’s ideas, not the poster.
I guess the following people are insignificant in your perverted little fantasy:
Spc. Craig Amundson, 28, Fort Belvoir, Va.
Melissa Rose Barnes, 27, Redlands, Calif.
(Retired) Master Sgt. Max Beilke, 69, Laurel, Md.
Kris Romeo Bishundat, 23, Waldorf, Md.
Carrie Blagburn, 48, Temple Hills, Md.
Lt. Col. Canfield D. Boone, 54, Clifton, Va.
Donna Bowen, 42, Waldorf, Md.
Allen Boyle, 30, Fredericksburg, Va.
Christopher Lee Burford, 23, Hubert, N.C.
Daniel Martin Caballero, 21, Houston, Texas
Sgt. 1st Class Jose Orlando Calderon-Olmedo, 44, Annandale, Va.
Angelene C. Carter, 51, Forrestville, Md.
Sharon Carver, 38, Waldorf, Md.
John J. Chada, 55, Manassas, Va.
Rosa Maria (Rosemary) Chapa, 64, Springfield, Va.
Julian Cooper, 39, Springdale, Md.
Lt. Cmdr. Eric Allen Cranford, 32, Drexel, N.C.
Ada M. Davis, 57, Camp Springs, Md.
Capt. Gerald Francis Deconto, 44, Sandwich, Mass.
Lt. Col. Jerry Don Dickerson, 41, Durant, Miss.
Johnnie Doctor, 32, Jacksonville, Fla.
Capt. Robert Edward Dolan, 43, Alexandria, Va.
Cmdr. William Howard Donovan, 37, Nunda, N.Y.
Cmdr. Patrick S. Dunn, 39, Springfield, Va.
Edward Thomas Earhart, 26, Salt Lick, Ky.
Lt. Cmdr. Robert Randolph Elseth, 37, Vestal, N.Y.
Jamie Lynn Fallon, 23, Woodbridge, Va.
Amelia V. Fields, 36, Dumfries, Va.
Gerald P. Fisher, 57, Potomac, Md.
Matthew Michael Flocco, 21, Newark, Del.
Sandra N. Foster, 41, Clinton, Md.
Capt. Lawrence Daniel Getzfred, 57, Elgin, Neb.
Cortz Ghee, 54, Reisterstown, Md.
Brenda C. Gibson, 59, Falls Church, Va.
Ron Golinski, 60, Columbia, Md.
Diane M. Hale-McKinzy, 38, Alexandria, Va.
Carolyn B. Halmon, 49, Washington, D.C.
Sheila Hein, 51, University Park, Md.
Ronald John Hemenway, 37, Shawnee, Kan.
Maj. Wallace Cole Hogan, 40, Fla.
Jimmie Ira Holley, 54, Lanham, Md.
Angela Houtz, 27, La Plata, Md.
Brady K. Howell, 26, Arlington, Va.
Peggie Hurt, 36, Crewe, Va.
Lt. Col. Stephen Neil Hyland, 45, Burke, Va.
Robert J. Hymel, 55, Woodbridge, Va.
Sgt. Maj. Lacey B. Ivory, 43, Woodbridge, Va.
Lt. Col. Dennis M. Johnson, 48, Port Edwards, Wis.
Judith Jones, 53, Woodbridge, Va.
Brenda Kegler, 49, Washington, D.C.
Lt. Michael Scott Lamana, 31, Baton Rouge, La.
David W. Laychak, 40, Manassas, Va.
Samantha Lightbourn-Allen, 36, Hillside, Md.
Maj. Steve Long, 39, Ga.
James Lynch, 55, Manassas, Va.
Terence M. Lynch, 49, Alexandria, Va.
Nehamon Lyons, 30, Mobile, Ala.
Shelley A. Marshall, 37, Marbury, Md.
Teresa Martin, 45, Stafford, Va.
Ada L. Mason, 50, Springfield, Va.
Lt. Col. Dean E. Mattson, 57, Calif.
Lt. Gen. Timothy J. Maude, 53, Fort Myer, Va.
Robert J. Maxwell, 53, Manassas, Va.
Molly McKenzie, 38, Dale City, Va.
Patricia E. (Patti) Mickley, 41, Springfield, Va.
Maj. Ronald D. Milam, 33, Washington, D.C.
Gerard (Jerry) P. Moran, 39, Upper Marlboro, Md.
Odessa V. Morris, 54, Upper Marlboro, Md.
Brian Anthony Moss, 34, Sperry, Okla.
Ted Moy, 48, Silver Spring, Md.
Lt. Cmdr. Patrick Jude Murphy, 38, Flossmoor, Ill.
Khang Nguyen, 41, Fairfax, Va.
Michael Allen Noeth, 30, New York, N.Y.
Diana Borrero de Padro, 55, Woodbridge, Va.
Spc. Chin Sun Pak, 25, Lawton, Okla.
Lt. Jonas Martin Panik, 26, Mingoville, Pa.
Maj. Clifford L. Patterson, 33, Alexandria, Va.
Lt. J.G. Darin Howard Pontell, 26, Columbia, Md.
Scott Powell, 35, Silver Spring, Md.
(Retired) Capt. Jack Punches, 51, Clifton, Va.
Joseph John Pycior, 39, Carlstadt, N.J.
Deborah Ramsaur, 45, Annandale, Va.
Rhonda Rasmussen, 44, Woodbridge, Va.
Marsha Dianah Ratchford, 34, Prichard, Ala.
Martha Reszke, 36, Stafford, Va.
Cecelia E. Richard, 41, Fort Washington, Md.
Edward V. Rowenhorst, 32, Lake Ridge, Va.
Judy Rowlett, 44, Woodbridge, Va.
Robert E. Russell, 52, Oxon Hill, Md.
William R. Ruth, 57, Mount Airy, Md.
Charles E. Sabin, 54, Burke, Va.
Marjorie C. Salamone, 53, Springfield, Va.
Lt. Col. David M. Scales, 44, Cleveland, Ohio
Cmdr. Robert Allan Schlegel, 38, Alexandria, Va.
Janice Scott, 46, Springfield, Va.
Michael L. Selves, 53, Fairfax, Va.
Marian Serva, 47, Stafford, Va.
Cmdr. Dan Frederic Shanower, 40, Naperville, Ill.
Antoinette Sherman, 35, Forest Heights, Md.
Don Simmons, 58, Dumfries, Va.
Cheryle D. Sincock, 53, Dale City, Va.
Gregg Harold Smallwood, 44, Overland Park, Kan.
(Retired) Lt. Col. Gary F. Smith, 55, Alexandria, Va.
Patricia J. Statz, 41, Takoma Park, Md.
Edna L. Stephens, 53, Washington, D.C.
Sgt. Maj. Larry Strickland, 52, Woodbridge, Va.
Maj. Kip P. Taylor, 38, McLean, Va.
Sandra C. Taylor, 50, Alexandria, Va.
Karl W. Teepe, 57, Centreville, Va.
Sgt. Tamara Thurman, 25, Brewton, Ala.
Lt. Cmdr. Otis Vincent Tolbert, 38, Lemoore, Calif.
Willie Q. Troy, 51, Aberdeen, Md.
Lt. Cmdr. Ronald James Vauk, 37, Nampa, Idaho
Lt. Col. Karen Wagner, 40, Houston, Texas
Meta L. Waller, 60, Alexandria, Va.
Staff Sgt. Maudlyn A. White, 38, St. Croix, Virgin Islands
Sandra L. White, 44, Dumfries, Va.
Ernest M. Willcher, 62, North Potomac, Md.
Lt. Cmdr. David Lucian Williams, 32, Newport, Ore.
Maj. Dwayne Williams, 40, Jacksonville, Ala.
Marvin R. Woods, 57, Great Mills, Md.
Kevin Wayne Yokum, 27, Lake Charles, La.
Donald McArthur Young, 41, Roanoke, Va.
Lisa L. Young, 36, Germantown, Md.
Edmond Young, 22, Owings, Md.
Look, I simply don’t have the interest in looking up information I’m unclear about to justify anything to you guys. I really dislike arguing with people about 9/11 and, like I said, that wasn’t my intent in participating in this thread. I’m not interested in convincing anyone or proselytizing. I am aware of arguments to the contrary, but thanks, I’m done caring.
Almost certainly Reagan National, which is just down the river from the Pentagon.
The flight path into National is still pretty bad.
And that’s exactly the problem with “truthers” in particular and conspiracy theorists in general. You can hand them all the information which refutes their arguments on a silver platter, and rather than admit they’re wrong about something, they say “Well I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything! I’m just asking questions!” or “I really don’t care about it enough to actually debate about it,” and go away. Unfortunately, this does not usually stop them from popping up to spew their ignorance later.
Reasonable people, when confronted with abundant evidence that runs contrary to their beliefs about something, begin examining that evidence and questioning those beliefs. Conspiracy theorists reject the evidence and embrace the beliefs even more tightly, while berating those who try to “tell them what to think” and “go along with the sheep” all the while.
This places you firmly in the “operating on a lower level of intellectual honesty and/or sanity” camp.
i.e. “sticks fingers in ears La la la I can’t hear you. I will believe only what I want to believe, facts be damned.”
Sorry about that although I did attack the ideas in detail earlier in the thread.
Good timing.
Nitpick2 - The Mary - not Marie - Celeste was found drifting 100m west of the Azores, which is still quite a way away from the Strait of Gibraltar.
The problem with this is that you’re entirely within your rights not to go out and look at things merely because people on here want you to. Who cares what we think? You shouldn’t do things just on our whim.
You should be doing these things because, as you said, you aren’t entirely happy with the common view of things. You should continue to care about arguments to the contrary because you are a questioning person. You don’t owe it to us; you owe it to yourself to look up information you’re unclear about on one side just as much as you feel you owe it to yourself to look up information on the other side.
I’m not going to call your sanity into question, because a) I don’t think you’re nuts and b) people in the thread seem to have fallen for the old trick of “Yes, phrasing my disagreement as insultingly as possible within the rules is entirely the best way to convince others!”. All i’m saying is, I like to think of myself as a questioning person too, and if I had disquiet over something that big, i’d be looking in all the places and all the sides I could.
So, you can’t be bothered to examine whether your beliefs (about something rather important) hold up to any scrutiny at all?
Well, reading is scary. I mean, one might turn out to be wrong. Can’t have that.
Did you not see the post I made to Shagnasty?
No more Notes, people, from now on it’ll be Warning.
That wasn’t an attack. It was a factual observation.
Regardless, it’s inappropriate for IMHO.
Ooh! Ooh, I got another one!
Paul McCartney died in a car crash in 1966, and was replaced by a guy who, with the help of some plastic surgery, looked exactly like him. And also sang just like him (remember, this was decades before ProTools) and played bass guitar just like him, and had comparable songwriting skills. (Insert Wings joke here.) And his father and brother and non-Beatle friends either couldn’t tell the difference, or were happily complicit. And the first responders and the doctors who pronounced him and the undertakers, not to mention the plastic surgeons, never broke their silence. Then, having successfully pulled this off (in a short enough span of time that the real McCartney’s absence was not remarked upon), the other three Beatles then proceeded to drop cryptic hints in their songs and album covers. Much more plausible than his going vegetarian* and abruptly losing weight, thereby changing the shape of his face. (Which kind of undermines the plastic surgery assertion. “This guy looks exactly like him – except he doesn’t! See?”)
*Briefly, at that time. He went back to eating meat for a few years; it was later that he became a devoted vegetarian, and much later, a fanatic.
You remind me of a situation that occurs outside a golf course in my town.
The golf course is fenced in, and there is a city street running along the outside of the fence. There are signs on the city side of the fence that read “Watch For Errant Golf Balls”.
Ok, so how am I to do that, exactly?
Am I to stare into the sky for extended periods of time searching for minuscule dots moving at 200 mph so that I might dodge one in the nick of time, all while driving a car or walking down the sidewalk?
Look, in a way I understand a bit of Nightrabbit’s side… this is not to say that his theories stand up to scrutiny or that there is any merit to them, just to say that I think it is GOOD to question something that seems fishy. 9 times out of ten (or more accurately 99 times out of 100), it will turn out that whatever happened may have had some unclear facts behind them, but are generally in step with the accepted story of how events transpired. However, I think that so many people scrutinizing every little detail might make those capable of large-scale conspiracy think twice about it (it’s easier to hide things when no one is looking).
In my younger days I was BIG into the lot of them: Moon landing, JFK, even roswell for a spell… I poured over page after page of “evidence”, read the entirety of the Warren Report, studied the life of one Lee Harvey Oswald, combing through endless tomes in search of that elusive phrase or date that would make the entire story fall apart…and you know what, the evidence wasn’t there. A conspiracy to fake a moon landing would make some sense given the time period, and that’s why it’s so easy to believe. To an extent the same could be said for 9/11, this country had a lot to gain from it happening, but there isn’t any evidence to support that the US attacked itself to gain support to invade Iraq, or for whatever reason.
I think that the best response to this type of thought process is healthy debate, not name-calling or berating the individual spouting off the theories. Ask specific questions, find out exactly what the person believes, cite your sources and engage in some information exchange. If the person is not completely obstinate about their position, perhaps they begin to rethink the situation.
That said, Nightrabbit, why don’t you tell me exactly what it is you believe happened on September 11th, and maybe people can understand where you’re coming from, without all the hostility on either side.