With the East Coast power outage, there have been numerous reports of NYC tourists locked out of their hotel rooms and being forced to sleep on the streets because the rooms would be too hot without power.
DIscussing this in the office, several people have informed me that they’ve heard that on stories above the sixth, windows can’t be opened in order to prevent jumpers.
OK, I know this is total bunk and that the reason windows don’t open on skyscrapers has a lot more to do with energy conservation and climate comtrol than suicide prevention. But, I (despite being a structural engineer) can’t find any info to prove this.
Anyone got any real info on why the windows of skyscrapers don’t open?
I had always heard that after the stock market crash of 1929 building codes were re-written to prevent people in high rise buildings from jumping out, but I’m unable to find a reference for this. I wouldn’t dismiss it as total bunk, however.
Actually you can open some. Most are outfitted with windows that rotate on a single center axel at the top and bottom of the frame so that it can be flipped inside out. It makes it easy to clean windows when the conventional window washing is not possible.
You use a special key for this. The reason I know is that I worked in 222 Broadway for about 6 years and we were on the ticker tap parade rout. Well of course when the Yankees won the various World Series we all wanted to throw crap out the window and most of your television networks used our building to shoot from as well because it was right there at the intersection of Broadway and the street that runs on the east side of city hall (name escapes me).
All the windows were double paned and pressurized in the center (I may be describing it wrong or using the incorrect language for it and if so I apologize).
On the other hand WTC had the same type of windows but those did not open at all. You had those automated window washers that ran down the side of the building so those puppies where solid. They had to be because when the washers would come down the building because the process was not a delicate one. I guess you had to take into account the natural sway of the buildings and their height…
I think it depends on the building… Most of your pre-war buildings the windows open with a special key like my old office. If it is a high tower they are all pressurized and permanently locked in the newer buildings. And of course it also depends on the style of the building…
Part of the reason, I know (and won’t profess it to be the entire reason) is airflow. It’s the reason for staggard elevators shafts & revolving doors, too.
If you picture the building as a large tupe set on end, its height & the difference of air speeds/pressures from top to bottom can make it a channel for air to flow from the bottom to the top.
Keeping it sealed keeps the air inside from whooshing out. It holds in the expensive air conditioning & heat, too.
One coworker’s mother was a building supervisor for a tall building. She had figured out the cost for every time the regular doors were used on the building (there for ADA reasons) instead of the revolving door.
We had some lower doors replaced on our 42 story office building once, our office was on the transition floor between the elevator shafts. The floor sounded like a wind tunnel as the upward rushing air forced itself around the elevator door cracks trying to rise out the top of the building.
“staggard”
Sorry. Need more coffee - or maybe two much already.
I thought that staggered elevator shafts were to prevent the spread of fire?
I thought staggered elevator shafts were simply due to the impracticalities of having one lift cable decending an entire tower. At that length it’s too heavy.
And I also thought revolving doors were used due to the down-drafts that a tower can generate on the outside surface, especially if it’s an exposed side. A sudden down draft coming down the side of the building can make normal doors slam shut or open with lethal force.
Windows I assume don’t open for two reasons. Firstly most buildings that size are air-conditioned, so open windows are counter-efficient, and secondly the danger of high winds at that height.
Total bunk. The Empire State Building, which was begun before the crash, but which wasn’t completed until after, had windows that opened. If it was against code, it would have been changed.
The staggered shafts had nothing to do with the weight of the cable (it would be, after all, counterbalanced). It was designed that way to prevent long waits for the elevators when everyone quit work at 5:00. If you had 86 floors of people, those on the lower floors would never be able to find room in an elevators.
Windows don’t open primarily because it’s more efficient when air conditioning to not have hot air coming into the building.
As Belrix said, buildings are pressurized by the ventilation system. Opening windows and doors seriously changes the air flow, resulting in endless complaints of ‘too hot/cold’, and in doors being either sucked open or in being difficult to open (depending on positive or negative building pressure). Anyone who has worked in facilities management can tell you that temperature and drafts are two of the biggest complaints from tenants.
Oh, BTW, Cecil did a column on people jumping out of windows in 1929. It was largely bunk (the jumping, not the column).
I would. Economist John Kenneth Galbraith, in his classic study The Great Crash, 1929, was able to find only one actual case where someone who was financially ruined by the stock market crash jumped from a tall building.
Woah this thread is from the days of dial-up internet
Sigh Yep, it’s an old site. Welcome to the SDMB, whatthefee. I’m not trying to jump on you, but posting to such old threads is generally discouraged. Just fyi.