Why Don't Stars Burn All Fuel Instantly?

I have a few questions about what is known about stellar fusion. First, I never thought of the sun as a hydrogen star. I was under the impression hydrogen stars were young, very hot, blue stars in the main sequence. Perhaps I am misguided, but I came to learn that the sun is still using hydrogen as fuel making helium.

If this is correct, my questions are:
a) What is the definition of a hydrogen star, and is the sun one?
b) As a star makes helium from hydrogen, where is the helium stored such that the star’s core does not begin the process of fusing helium atoms together to make…lithium? or, does it go to straight to carbon? (I could swear Sagan’s “Cosmos” once stated the fusion process goes down the line in order of the periodic table making heavier and heavier elements, but recently I read it goes from H to He to C…or is this the short story?)

Explaining my 2nd question further: How can a star differentiate between atoms so that all the hydrogen must be used up first before helium is used as the fuel? I WAG that, IIRC a star is cooler with each heavier atom it uses as fuel, then maybe this suggests helium won’t fuse above a certain threshold temp - leaving only the hydrogen to fuse at this higher temp.?

I am obviously very confused about what is actually going on in a star’s life… If you reply, it would help if your answer applies to all stars, or perhaps only to a certain class of stars (i.e.: spectral class or category - like supergiants or white dwarfs, as examples.)

So, what do we know about this?

  • Jinx, amateur astronomer

a) A hydrogen star is one where hydrogen is still the primary fuel of a star. Yes our sun is one - it is still converting hydrogen into helium, in its core.

I’ll go into the stellar life cycle here - it’ll make things easier to explain.

We begin with a protostar, which is gas that is collapsing in under gravity. As the gas collapses, hydrogen burning (this is hydrogen fusion) begins, and once the protostar achieves hydrostatic equilibrium, the protostar joins the main sequence. This is an age zero main sequence star. This name allows us to distingush between a newly formed star, in which all the elements are distributed evenly through the star, and one which has been burning for a while, in which there will be a greater concentration of helium in the core, than at t=0. For instance, the sun’s core contains more helium than hydrogen (because of nucleosynthesis), but there is enough hydrogen in the core to ensure our sun remains in its core hyrdogen burning phase for about 5x10[sup]9[/sup] years.

As the number of atomic nuclei in a star’s core decreases with time (because it takes 4 H atoms to make one He atom), the pressure in the star’s core decreases, so gravity allows the star to collapse, which makes the star hotter. This means that the H in the outer layers of the star is heated, and we get H burning in the outer-lying regions as well. This hasn’t happened to the sun yet - in about 5x10[sup]9[/sup] years!

Once the H in the core is depleted, H burning will only continue in the oyter layers - this is the shell H burning phase. Initially, this only happens in the hottest region immediately outside the core, but then spreads out to the outer-lying regions. This shell burning heats up the core, and causes the core to contract. Because He is heavier than H, the He formed in the shells drops down to the core, which makes the core heavier, which causes the core to contract more.

Eventually, the star will become a red giant, and since their surface gravity is fairly weak, much of the gas in the shell H burning layers is ‘blown off’. There will still however be a thin shell of H burning gas surrounding a denser core of almost pure He. In the core of red-giants the temperature has risen to allow He fusion to occur. We do not have He fusion in the sun’s core at the moment because temperatures are too low. - temperatures of 100 million K are needed.

There are two stages to He burning. Firstly, two He atoms combine to form a short-lived, unstable atom of beryllium (Be). Then, if a third He nucleus strikes the Be atom before the Be atom decays (which is entirely plausible in the dense core of a star), a stable carbon isotope is formed (carbon 12), and energy is released. This is called the triple alpha process

So, to answer your second question (I think I’ve answered your first one above), the He is stored in the core of the star. However, the star cannot use He as a fuel until the temperature is high enough, as opposed to low enough, for two He atoms to overcome the electrostatic repulsive force (remember the He is two protons and two neutrons, and so both are positive, and will, under normal circumstances, repel each other) and fuse.

Does this help?

Also, a good starting point is “Universe” by Roger Freedman and William Kaufmann III.

Gee Angua, you sound like my 11 year old daughter.

Only you’re explanation is a little more detailed, but she got the order of stellar life right.

Sorry, just a proud science father here.

And I didn’t?

Protostar->zero-age main sequence->main sequence with H burning in the core -> main sequence with H burning in the shell -> red giant, with He burning.

Thank you very much for calling my professional credibility into doubt. FTR - I’m a 23 year old professional astrophysicist. I have a Masters in Natural Science and astrophysics from Cambridge, I currently work for the University of Birmingham, which is one of the top universities in Britain for astrophysics. But, hey, I obviously don’t know my stuff any better than your 11 year old.

Once again, thank you, for telling me that I shouldn’t be a professional astrophysicist. What is it with people on the boards at the moment? So quick to accuse people of not knowing their stuff, without checking out if they do.

Angua - having a bad day? I’ll try to cheer you up :slight_smile:

I read Odinoneeye’s response to say - “Your explanation is fuller, but my daughter did get the order right!” See, nothing about you being wrong.

I have an 11 YO daughter like that too - and I’m also very proud of her!

Dan Abarbanel

Lighten up! He’s just happy his daughter got the answer right. He didn’t say anything negative about you at all. I thought your answer was clear and concise. Just the kind of answer we want on this board. Thank you.

Fair enough. I guess because I’ve had my credibility called into account before on the boards as an astrophysicist, I immediately assumed that this was yet another one of those posts by people who’ve seen me in MPSIMS or IMHO, and who assume that just because I post in a flirty style in many cases, I’m making up the astrophysics as I go along.

Thanks Noonespecial, you should change your name to Someonespecial. :smiley:

And on preview - thank you The Green Feather also. I realise that yes, I probably read too much into Odinoneeye’s response, and that it wasn’t meant that way. I am having a stressful time at the moment, but that’s not an excuse.

So, Odinoneeye, I’m sorry for my outburst, like I said, others have questioned my answers on things like this before. I think the “but she got the order of stellar life right” set me off thinking that you thought I’d got my facts wrong.

Just as long as we can keep you flirting :smiley:

I think it’s stellar to have you 'round!

Oh, and have a happy Id el Fitr! (Starts on Monday, no?)

Of course! As soon as I’ve finished writing my introductory astrophysics course that I’m giving on Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday.

Thank you! I will. :slight_smile:

As a fellow astronomer (sort of) I too found Odin’s remark to be a little rude, though I see he didn’t mean it that way.

Anyway just to supplement Angua’s reply - the reason a star doesn’t burn up at once is that there is a self-regulating mechanism. The fusion reaction creates heat, and this thermal energy (pressure) keeps the star from collapsing. If the reaction starts to speed up for some reason, core pressure becomes higher and the density goes down, which slows down the reaction rate back down to the equilibrium level. Also if this equilibrium is maintained by the fusion of hydrogen, this regulating mechanism prevents the temperature from getting high enough to burn helium. When hydrogen in the core is used up, the lack of heat source at the core causes the star to start collapsing. Eventually the gravitational energy heats up the core enough to burn helium, and a new equilibrium is established at a higher temperature than before.

Hey, congratulations! In a matter of seconds you have demolished the myth of the educated Briton, sophisticated and just loaded with aplomb.

I’m not sure how to take this. Was it meant sarcastically? Or, do you really think that?

I am terribly sorry that I was offended at a remark, which at first glance does question whether or not I know what I’m talking about.

Thank god that stellar fusion doesn’t rely on a communication media so dodgy as the written word. We’d have all been incinerated years ago. That was a great answer Angua.

When sarcasm has to be explained it probably was bad sarcasm.

It is my firm belief that there are many things in life we have to take seriously. Ourselves isn’t one of them.

Hey, I don’t take myself seriously (apart from where my work is concerned)! If I did, I’d never let myself do half the things that seem to be documented at DopeFests! :slight_smile:

And aplomb and me? Nah, I can put it on when needs be, but I’d rather not! :slight_smile:

Blimey. What on earth has Angua done beyond
providing a detailed reply, and then politely rebutting a silly and somewhat rude next post?

Hang on, TLD. I don’t think David Simmons meant any serious criticism. :slight_smile:

Yeah, it skips a few steps. As Angua said, it goes from H to He in proton-proton and CNO. Then it skips all the way from He to C in triple-alpha. And then sometimes you can have He + C -> O.

Theoretically, Iron (Fe) is the limit, but stars like the sun never make it past Carbon/Oxygen. More massive stars get up to Fe, again skipping a few steps. I think it goes C, Ne, O, Si, Fe. I think there might be a couple of intermediate elements too, like Mg and Ni.

… And of course anything beyond iron is created only when super-novae occur.

And all those intermediate elements that are not created by stellar fusion - say Sodium - are created when fusion results in radioactive isotopes that later decay…

I Think. (Angua - help!)

Yes - that’s right. Some elements are indeed the stable products of radioisotope decay. I can’t remember off hand exactly which ones, and in what proportions, and I’ve taken my copy of Universe home, so I could write some brief introductory astrophysics tutorials.

Mg and Ni are stellar fusion products, but in very small amounts.