Well it’s nothing to me, but to add another mode into gameplay isn’t always as easy as tweaking a few lines of code. It can take a lot of time and money for the developer, and for what? Today very few older folk play serious video games, and while I suppose it could change in the future, I don’t see it changing so drastically that we have elders lining up in wheelchairs and walkers waiting for Halo 8 or Final Fantasy 34.
I think it comes down to not wanting to waste the time or money creating a special super-easy difficulty to sell what would likely amount to a minuscule additional number of copies.
In the future who do you think these old folks are going to be, is the point. Do you plan to start listening to big band music and reminiscing about World War II and the homefront when you hit 70?
Tastes change as you get older. Even I play fewer video games than when I was younger as I have other stuff going on. I’m just not sure it’s fair to say that the next generation of elderly people are going to be as video game crazy as the teens of today are.
And still, if the elderly people of the future want to play video games, chances are they’ll already have had a good grasp on video games and wouldn’t need a super-easy mode (which I understand to be for old folks who are relatively new to video games). But who knows, maybe there will emerge a big niche for elderly gaming…
That said, I think the protests against easier modes is ridiculous. Including the “it’d sell a miniscule amount of copies” argument. You don’t know how many copies it’d sell, and here’s a “little known” fact: TONS more people -don’t- play “regular” video games than do. (The "regular adjective is here to preemptively eliminate people citing games like Bejeweled or Mafia Wars and claiming that ka-zillions of people play games every day.) Let me re-iterate that for you. Videogames, in the traditional sense, are still a niche market. Anything that can be done to -expand- that niche, so long as it doesn’t compromise what games are about, is likely to be a boon to the industry. Observe, the Wii. Now, how many of the people who are not playing games are not playing them because they’re just too hard? Certainly not all of them, but even a small fraction of a really big number is a substantial growth area for the gaming industry. I know I know a few of these people personally.
Seriously. Stop and look at a modern controller.Just look at it. It has two analogue sticks, at least one D-pad, 4 shoulder buttons, four ‘traditional’ buttons, and some random crap in the middle that may or may not involve “start” “select” and a logo. Now think back to what controllers looked like when you started playing games. It may have been something like this. You may notice some difference in complexity.
And you’re trying to argue that adding an easier mode (note: Not all games even come with an “easy” mode) would be -bad-? I question your reasoning, sir.
Im a PC gamer who occasionally gets into consoles and everytime I pick up a console controller I’m pretty much floored at the layout. I cant imagine someone new to this enjoying the console experience. “No Dad, the button at the top is called the bottom button! Hold that and B to arm your grenade and release the top button to launch it!”
Ugh, there’s something to be said about the simplicity of the mouse and keyboard combo and the ability to hit Esc > Setttings and see what they keys are mapped to.
Maybe on the console but on the PC you have tons of options. I just bought Torchlight for like 5 dollars on steam. Very, very simple control scheme. PC FPS games tend to use the was WASD key commands. Its really pretty simple.
I also disagree that console games are hard. Theyre just in need of more options and more buttons. The games themselves are pretty easy. I rent some of the more popular ones, fly through the levels, and get bored with it pretty quickly. Old games are actually the hardest. Try playing Donkey Kong Jr or Ms Pac Man. You’ll maybe get to level 3 after an hour of practice. An hour spent in a modern game is all advancement and reward.
Wait, wait. First you say “Hold B to arm your grenade and then release the button to launch it” and then you say that they’re not too hard?
What would be better? “Yeah! Just point in the right direction and press Shift-G for grenade?” Sorry, but games of comparable complexity on the PC are just as bad if not worse. Your Torchlight example doesn’t help your cause. I could just point you to 'Splosion Man - where all the buttons do the same thing and then compare it to, say, the control scheme of oh, just because I’m being a jerk, Freespace 2, which used darn near every button on the keyboard, or, heck, most MMOs, and you’re right back where you started. Perhaps you’re expecting the controls in Crysis 2 to be nice and simple? Splinter Cell: Conviction? Yeah, I’m sure those will be the -model- of simple and elegant control schemes. Heck, have you ever even tried explaining WASD+Mouselook to a non gamer and then watched them try to do it?
Games. Are. Complex. And also, generally, unintuitive. If you can’t grasp that, and the fact that games which are less complex and more intuitive (Lego games, Guitar Hero, Wii titles) tend to -sell- better, then, well, I don’t really see how we can have a discussion.
And while I think of it, PCs have another learning curve/sharing the fun obstacle. It’s really, really hard to cram two people around a PC so one can “show the other the ropes”. You end up with an annoying sort of “backseat gaming” - “no no, look, let me…” etc.
On a console, at least, multiple players actually being present in the room is a viable possibility.
See, getting the hang of the Xbox 360 controller was where my father struggled as well. Of course, a super-easy difficulty mode isn’t going to help if it’s learning the controller’s buttons that you’re having trouble with…
Not bad, but not necessary either. I gather you’re trying to say that if video games had “old fart” modes, that old people who otherwise wouldn’t play the video game would. I don’t buy that argument. My grandmother, who is on Facebook and quite content at playing casual word games online, isn’t going to ever pick up a Call of Duty game and start fragging, regardless of how simple they make it. Sure, a few will, but I question the cost versus benefit of that proposition. Making a super-easy mode would likely have more instruction and have to guide the player through everything (even more so than the normal tutorial). That could take a lot more effort on the development end, and to just attract a few more players?
You can do that in just about every console game too (although it’s Start button -> Settings -> Controls).
Theres a difference between learning the interface and the difficultly of the game.
No, my point is that the PC gaming ecosystem is much more varied than the console one. I can play a dumb flash game or the most complex strategy game. Perhaps your dad cant handle Battlefield 2 but he can handle Torchlight or King’s Bounty. On top of it he can get those games for next to nothing via services like Steam. He can download free demos (no paying for gold membership) and try them out. I also find the PC world is saner with its control schemes because youre not holding anything and are using a physical interface you already have experience with.
To each his own, but I had to get my dad started on gaming Id probably get him going with Flash games and go from there as opposed to handing him a console controller and a copy of Halo II.
The only intuitive interface is the nipple. Either you put in the effort to learn the interface or you dont. Games arent that complex. A FPS is the same formula put through different levels, guns, etc. All the MMOs are almost exactly the same. Children fly through these games. Youre really overselling the complexity argument.
Yes. But together they form a barrier to entry. Raise either one too high and you get the same result - people saying “screw this, this is too hard”.
It’s like saying “there’s a difference between teaching people to pole vault and teaching them to pole vault HIGH”. It’s true, but it doesn’t mean that teaching people to pole vault is easy.
I think your lack of console experience is showing here. There are lots of simple games on consoles. It’s easier to teach Katamari Damacy than King’s Bounty, I can assure you. It’s easier to teach Geometry Wars than Torchlight.
As opposed to getting lots of games for next to nothing via the no-need-to-install and already built into your hardware options of XBLA or PSN? Again, you sound inexperienced with the console scene here.
Inexperienced with the console scene. Demos do not require a gold membership except for the very occasional “exclusive” which just means “It’ll be available to everyone next week”. In fact, no game downloads require a gold membership. Gold membership is for multiplayer and chat functions only. And not even required on a PS3.
And really, when you get down to it, acquiring new games and playing demos is such a TINY PART of the reason most people don’t participate in this hobby that I’m tempted to accuse you of trying to hijack the thread by attempting to treat it as relevant to the discussion.
Because “holding something” was a definite barrier to entry for the Wii and Guitar Hero? And yes, you’re using something you’re already ‘familiar’ with, but you’re a technical user. Every time I teach my mom to perform a new task with the mouse, it’s a whole new experience. It’s like she learns ‘recipes’ for how to do things with the PC. She commits to memory the steps, but they don’t really -translate- into anything else.
And you’d be right. But sadly, learning to play that flash game is never going to help me if I’d like to get him to play the games I’m playing. That’s the point I was trying to make earlier. It’s all well and good to say “I’m glad you’re enjoying Bejewelled” but it’s not like that’s some sort of stepping stone that’s going to help me find a new person to play Castle Crashers with.
Again; You’re missing the point. I bet you played Doom. You’ve been doing this forever and have had a chance to pick it up in bits and pieces. Learning the formula is REALLY HARD for most people. That’s why games are a tiny niche.
No, you’re just incapable of thinking of the issue from the perspective of someone who hasn’t experienced these things.
And yes, “children pick this stuff up”; Children also pick up foreign languages really easily. That doesn’t mean foreign languages are easy for most people. The brain just works differently when you’re under 12.
Once us GenXers hit our 70’s and 80’s, games will be played with our minds, rendering the controllers irrelevant, so it won’t matter. The trick then will be avoiding Alzheimer’s so you can still play.
Look at it like this. I think we can assume that anyone new to a genre is going to take some time to pick up how the controls work - whether they be WASD, right click to move, or push B to jump. We’ll call this amount of time X.
Which game is more likely to encourage the player to continue to play and learn: The one that kills him 15 times during X, each time erasing all his progress and sending him back to where he started unless he has somehow managed to pass a ‘checkpoint’. Or a game perhaps ‘kills’ him only once, with minimal penalties and no loss of progress?
Which game is more likely to catch his interest? One that deluges him with a “spreadsheet” full of “stats” and items as soon as he starts it up, or one that introduces him to core concepts gradually?
Game designers have been figuring this stuff out slowly over the last few years. Sadly, a lot of gamers haven’t.
The Xbox Live Arcade game Splosion Man has the funniest such thing I’ve seen: after trying and failing a certain number of times, the game offers you the option to go “The Way of the Coward”. If you accept, you are teleported to the next level, and your character will have to wear a frilly pink tutu until you complete the level without assistance.
Oh, come on. The formula is simple. The niche is small because shooting demons in a video game only appeals to x amount of people. Using a bedazzler isnt hard, but I dont feel a need to jazz up my phone.
Oh it sure is. Most people take severl rounds before theyre remotely comfortable with the interface. This is true of all interfaces.
You need to learn some kind of interface. If you are completely unwilling then these types of games arent for you. Its like saying we should make an old fart car with a button that says “Go to shopping mall, buy pants, and go home” because cranky old men cant be bothered to do the individual steps on their own.
Im not going to sit here and list a million easy PC games. There are more games for the PC than the consoles. Period.
I disagree. There are fun litle FPS games that you can use as a stepping stone. There are fun little MMO-type games made in flash. All sorts of little things that cost little or even nothing that can be experienced by the casual gamer. Whether or not it leads them to all night sessions playing WoW doesnt matter. Its besides the point. Casual gamers have many more options on the PC and because of the richer ecology are better off with it than trying to compete with the fragfest consoletards love to play. The millions of Wiis sitting around collecting dust are a testament to this.
Sorry, but that’s silly. We continually strive to make cars safer and easier. Maybe you think only professional race car drivers should be allowed to drive, because “real” driving only occurs at 200MPH. If you can’t hang, don’t drive! How nice for you. Me? I don’t mind power windows, power steering, anti-lock brakes, a rearview camera, GPS nav, etc, etc. C’mon now! :mad:
Not to mention, if easy is too hard for the “old fart” demographic, then they are simply playing the wrong games. If a game’s difficultly is in its reaction times then slowing it down is simply cheating, which is fine but dont blame game designers for not making this mode standard. Pick games where speed isnt an issue like a strategy game or something turn based.
>Sorry, but that’s silly. We continually strive to make cars safer and easier.
My point is that there are acceptable limits of compromise. A car with one button to buy pants? No, thats ridiculous. Taking public transportation with a friend who can help you buy pants? Thats a win. Expecting a slow mode by default in games is like expecting a one button car.
I can’t speak for others, but I’m not asking for a button that will play the game for me.
if you want to play with the big boys and prove what a bad-ass you are, then by all means join a tournament and prove yourself against the world’s best. Put the proof on YouTube. Most gamers don’t aspire to be world-class competitors, and games wouldn’t sell very well if you had to be that good to get through it.
Why? Where are the power brakes? The power steering equivalents? Why -can’t- there be features like this? Because it’d be “cheating”? New flash, sir, but these are single player games we’re talking about here. No one is diminishing your gaming experience by putting in a ‘super easy mode’ any more than the existance of GameShark style devices already is, or any more than someone rearranging the cards when they start to lose at solitaire is ‘cheating’. This isn’t a moral argument, it’s about people having fun.
What -is- your problem with offering games in an extra easy mode? Seriously. Dispense with the semantics and the side arguements and tell us why you feel it would be inappropriate?
(Frankly, I’d love a one button car. I -hate- to drive, but sometimes I have to do it.)
