Why DON'T you believe in a god?

I dont believe in any sort of god for a few reasons. On top of the list is how ALL of them claim to be the only way. According to Pat Robetson, Jerry Fallwell, and the Pope if you arent a christian then you are going to hell. The last time I checked The majority of the world wasnt christian. This leads me to believe that their “god” cant get us all!!!

THen there are the god of the past. The Odins and Osirises of ancient times. I just cant get my head around the arrogance of modern religions claim that their god created the universe when there are 30 or so other gods who laid claim to the souls of mankind long before any of the prophets climed out of their desert caves.

There is also the ignorance ingraned into religion. They say god made the world. I say, explain dinosaurs for me. All I get in return is a blank stare or some horse shit story about St.George and a dragon.

On to the hypocracy we come to the 10 commandments from the old testament, which is common to the christians and the jews. God says “Thou shalt not kill” then he goes and flood the earth and kills everything on it except for Noah and his floating zoo. That is kind of like your mom telling you to not get high after you find her bong. Lets not forget my other favorite “Thou shalt not commit adultery”. Now I might be wrong , but wasnt Jesus mother married when god decided to knock her up?? Son of god my ass!! If I was Joseph I would have had Jesus aborted out of spite.

Finaly there is personal experience. If god can make a bush burn for Moses he can at least put on a better show for me than David Copperfield does. If God cant even do 1 measly card trick for me then why bother worshiping him in the first place?? It doesnt have to be anything fancy, maybe just pull a quarter from behind my ear like my uncle did when I was little. I need a little bit more proof that a rag tag collection of incongruos stories written by savages just barely out of the stone age before I put my faith into any kind of all mighty anything.

Mainly I was raised nontheistically. If that’s a word. Not Atheistically, as in family members wandered about decrying the existence of deities, just nontheistically. As in theism simply wasn’t any sort of topic, good or bad.

No one went to church, no (or very few) friends and relatives went to any church, nobody discussed god or theism, Christmas was just a day off from work where people bought each other gifts. Easter was wholly rabbits and chocolate eggs, nothing more.

We had no bible in the house, no JWs tended to stop by, TV movies like “The Ten Commandments” were just movies.

The house WAS, however- and still is- chock full of all manner of nontheist reading material. Encyclopaedia, 14-pound unabridged dictionaries. An OED. Books by Capstick, Hemingway, Jordan and Shakespeare. Paperbacks, hardbacks, newspapers and magazines. National Geographic on down to Hot Rod Magazine. Books on welding and sheetmetal forming, books on bedding rifle actions, books on quilt sewing and cooking. A Gray’s Anatomy. Chemistry, photography, metallurgy and philosophy. Aristotle, Galilieo and Newton. Edison, Marconi and Whitney.

By the time I was exposed to the more devout theist material, I was able to to view it phlegmatically, to interpret it logically rather than emotionally. I found it as wanting as dowsing, telepathy and astrology.

The more I read, the less likely the general concepts of religion become. At this point I find it curious that people even believe this stuff, let alone base their entire existence around it. I thought we left the eleventh century behind a long time ago.

C’mon. Religion is such obvious horseshit. I mean, God is the most sought-after UFO in human history, and no one’s been able to come up with anything better than Close Encounter stories uncorroborated by any evidence that would convince a rational 12-year-old.

Ultimately I don’t believe in God because I respect the evidence of reason and my senses. Which is why I know I’ll never convince a True Believer that they are wrong.

What can I say, Scott? I find the evidence insufficient to warrant such a belief…

gobear said:

I take issue with this. The existence, or lack of existence, of a god has nothing to do with such things. Or, for that matter, with anything else we might encounter on a daily basis. There are reasons a child might have cancer: genetic predisposition, environmental hazards. These are perfectly explicable natural phenomena in the unbiased universe I believe we live in, whether that universe was created by a deity or whether it happened to come into existence through a chance combination of conditions and events.

Burner said:

And this – well, none of this qualifies as an argument against deity. It’s a motley collection of regurgitated, knee-jerk opinion and convenient – if injudicious – use of facts. And the last paragraph … sorry, but god not appearing to perform tangible miracles or even card tricks for your personal amusement is no proof of god’s existence or non-existence. It’s not even a particularly compelling reason for disbelief.

The rhetoric does show promise. If harnessed in the future, it might be a fine debate tool.

On a personal level, I was raised by atheists, so I was never indoctrinated into any religion, and have always approached all religious claims from the “outside”, rather than as things I have been taught to accept but must now find reason to reject. Of course, that’s more or less “insufficient evidence”, but just to tell you where I’m coming from.

Why I don’t believe in the God of Christian fundamentalists (Biblical inerrantists): I don’t believe in the God of those Christians who claim their God has inspired the Bible as his inerrant word because I find the Bible to be self-evidently errant, in that it has internal contradictions. It also contradicts other known facts of history and science, especially as interpreted by many Biblical inerrantists (a young Earth, separate creation of humans rather than human evolution from non-human animals).

Why I don’t believe in the God of classical Christian theology: The Trinity is a bit hard to swallow–probably not an insuperable objection; I’m willing to buy that light is both a particle and a wave, for example, even though I may not really understand it, because physicists have experimental evidence for wave-particle duality and other sorts of quantum weirdness, and I’m even given to believe that the working of my digital watch and my computer and all sorts of other gadgets can’t be explained without quantum physics. I have more insuperable objections to the classic problems entailed by the three omnis (omnibenevolence, omnipotence, omniscience), regarding the paradoxes of human free will, the problem of evil, and the internal contradictions between the various attributes of God–the problem of God’s free will, for example. Finally, I have problems with the dual natures of Christ: I don’t see how a God of the sort described by Christian theology, as above, can become man. If he’s omnipotent and omniscient, it’s meaningless to say he’s “fully human”. If he “empties himself” of those attributes, I don’t see how he can be said to be fully God. I could see Zeus voluntarily giving up his power to hurl thunderbolts for a time (kinda like Superman II) and still meaningfully being Zeus, but the Christian God’s nature is fundamentally omnipotent, omniscient, etc. An “incarnation” of God who doesn’t have those things isn’t really God; he’s just a man, even if he happened to have been born of a virgin by a supernatural act of the Holy Spirit. (This objection will not, of course, apply to Arian Christians.)

Why I don’t believe in the Judeo-Christian God in general: And probably for the gods of other religious traditions, it seems all too obvious to me that these are human-invented concepts which have evolved out of ancient societies trying to understand the Universe. They’re very historically rooted, and one can all too easily trace their evolution from earlier gods–a primitive storm god or battle god of a particular tribe becomes the Creator of the entire Universe, with many lofty philosophical and ethical refinements, but there are still many traces of the old tribal idols, the theological equivalents of the vermiform appendix or “junk DNA”. All the gods I’m familiar with show every sign of having been invented, not discovered.

Why I don’t believe in some sort of Intelligent Designer: It largely just boils down to the standard “lack of evidence”. (For, say, the Greek pantheon, it’s mainly just an argument from absurdity–that the Universe is ruled by a bearded Greek guy who cheats on his wife simply strikes most people these days as silly. Not a strong argument logically, but no one seems to really be making the case for Homeric fundamentalism, so there’s little need for anyone to come up with strong objections to it.) There is also a sense to me that the argument from design, the “watchmaker God”, is a rather overweening degree of anthropomorphism: the Universe is not a watch. Modern science, especially evolutionary biology, seems to reduce the need for a God; at the very least, almost everything but the simple fact of existence as opposed to non-existence can be pretty well explained scientifically, or at least plausibly hypothesized about: why the stars shine, why the seasons turn, and where humans come from. I also see no evidence that the Universe was made for us, and much evidence that it wasn’t: the Universe is mostly empty space; the parts which aren’t empty space which we can see are overwhelmingly not centered on us–as my signature points out, this is a pretty obscure planet. (And apparently even all the stuff we can see may be only a fraction of what’s in the Universe; whatever “dark matter” is, it seems to be cosmically more important than the stuff we see around here.) Most of the Universe is alien, hostile, and on really inhuman scales of space, time, and violent energy. Even locally, Jupiter is as big as all the planets put together (and I believe Saturn is as big as all the planets put together besides Jupiter). Earth’s a pretty small piece of debris. Of course, Earth is the home of life, and nowhere else that we know of is. But life on Earth is billions of years old; the dinosaurs lasted for hundreds of millions of years longer than we’ve been around, and the dinosaurs were recent. We are recent, and may yet just be a flash in the pan. As far as the argument from morality, the Universe seems a pretty cold and uncaring place, and life especially seems to have been driven from the beginning by blind, very amoral forces–survival and reproduction at all costs, leading to many things which would be (by our standards) disgusting, cruel, or depraved.

All of that doesn’t logically preclude a creator, of course, but it provides an argument against an anthropomorphic, personalized creator–even against the Deistic God who endows us with certain inalienable liberties and whose Providence governs the affairs of human beings.

Oh, yes:

Why I don’t believe in Pantheism: And similar attempts to redefine God as the laws of physics, as our own higher impulses, etc. I just don’t find these sorts of basically semantic games to be helpful in understanding anything or communicating with anybody. Historically words like “god” (and deus and theos and el and so forth) have meant persons, willful, conscious entities which have purposes and act on them. I’m not as familiar with concepts like the Tao, so I can’t comment on them as much, but if those concepts don’t have that aspect of deliberate agency, then it seems misleading to me to translate Tao as God or to equate the two concepts.

Applying logic to God is like chasing butterflies with a hammer.

I wasn’t raised with religion. It just wasn’t a part of my understanding of the world. I cannot picture what it is like to believe in a God. As an adult, I don’t see any reasion to pick it up. I especially can’t see ever chooseing a specific religion (Christianity, Islam, etc.) because the choice would be essentially random. I have no reason to believe any specific one of them is true, and I have no cultural connection to them. There’d just be no reason for it.

This rather sums up my feelings. I find the concept of deity to be irrational – and I don’t use that word in a negative sense.

Hmmm, god is better approached by mystics than by statistics is the way I look at it. Even if he does not exist, he is still worth contemplating in all manifestations attributed to him. The characteristics we [as humans] give to god can tell us a lot about ourselves, our values and our desires.
To contemplate the concept of god and the attributes that god would have if we were to believe in him can lead to illuminating personal (and maybe cultural?) insights.

In the end, it does come down to the fact that I don’t believe or disbelieve because there seems to be no way (other than an intangible internal sense of “wow! this universe thing is pretty cool – wonder how it happened? you think somebody made it?”) to know one way or the other. And I don’t find it to be a factor in my daily life. I simply live (and live simply!), do my thing and try not to injure others in word or deed. That’s a tall enough order for me.

Words of wisdom there. :slight_smile: I’ve tried to explain my conviction that God is quite real and present often enough, and been faced with people attempting to demonstrate the logical fallacies lying behind it, that I’ve all but given up on explicating my faith – I merely try to show that I’m doing what my Lord commands, and what I feel to be the right thing to do, and hope that’s enough.

It deppresses me the fact that acording to religon, there’s a great big thing or ‘person’ up there that controls everything you do and everything thst happens to you is based on what he decided on. Why would he let people suffer thru cancer and painful diseases? Don’t give me that bull about how he’s testing us and/or our faith.

What other approaches are there? If the answer is repetitve, that’s because the question is repetitive.

Why is that? Unless you regard theism (or more precisely, theology) is not a philosophical construct but a pile of irrational junk.

You don’t have to be a Christian (or believer in another other form of religion) to do good. Moralities based on secular foundations are surely possible: Jesus did not invent the Golden Rule. OTOH, being a Christian doesn’t prevent from a person committing crimes.

So there is no beneficial reason to be a Christan, at least not in general terms.

Or to paraphrase: “I can tolerate a certain amount of what I know to be horseshit in my beliefs, so long as it benefits me socially and/or personally.”

This is what I’ve always understood the argument from faith to mean.

originaly by : Fatwater Fewl

Please correct me if I am wrong , but are you giving us a hard time because our reason for non belief is diffrent from yours??

Why I don’t believe in gods or goddesses?

  1. Far too many to choose from,
  2. The ones that are available to choose from don’t seem to be any more emotionally advanced then the groups that worship them, and
  3. There is about as much proof(if not less) that they exist as there is evidence that Santa Claus or Batman exists, and if we are supposing that there are all-powerful beings that are responsible for the creation of everything and and have a daily direct influence on our lives, that it seems necessary that there is direct evidence of such an influencial being’s existance, but so far such evidence has been lacking.

I am an agnostic/athiest – it depends on how the stock market’s doing. :smiley:

I had a very neurotic, high-strung mother, who constantly lamented how she wished she hadn’t had children, that we were ‘accidents’.

I think the influence of this on my belief system has been profound – I don’t have any problem accepting the possibility that we are mere specks in a dust storm, soon to be snuffed out forever.

That may not sound like something positive (as was requested in the OP), but I believe it’s caused me to think less about any eternal reward in the hereafter, and focus more on stuff that may make a difference here on earth after I’m gone.

More specifically, it’s caused me to do everything I can to make children I come in contact with feel special and wanted – I don’t have children of my own, but I almost became a step-father once, which I really enjoyed. And I am widely considered to be one the the all-time coolest uncles.

In other words, I think it’s caused me to focus less on myself, and more on others – which I always felt was one of things Christianity was trying to promulgate.

Maybe our different paths lead to the same place?

Nope. I was giving your post a hard time because of the reasons I stated.

Do you mean to say that there is something specifically Christian or theistic about trying to be a good person?