Fyi, oral health and susceptibility to infection are rather well documented. Also, reduced lung capacity is of course a long term sequela of pneumonia so it’s weird you listed that as unique to covid.
Many, most diseases have been studied more intensively than COVID regarding asymptomatic transmission. HIV. Epstein-Barr. Lyme. Herpes.
What’s your background and authority for saying otherwise?
That’s what I thought.
Some diseases have been studied. If you “thought” I was going to give up trying to address every random dart you throw at the board, well kudos on your mind reading.
Based on the study Monstro linked above, 98% have no symptoms at 3 months, which I think is pretty encouraging. Hopefully there are teams out there now looking at 3 month+ data.
I think there’s a big psychological difference. War is something we do. Disease is something that happens to us. It was a lot easier for people to see the deaths in Vietnam as the result of bad policy. The way to end war deaths was obvious to many.
Another difference is that better government and personal decisions would not have reduced Covid deaths to zero. We in the U.S. could have done a much better job against the pandemic, but that wouldn’t have lowered the death rate to zero. There’s no equivalent to withdrawing from Vietnam, which promised to reduce American war deaths to zero in short order.
Let’s also remember that the American public didn’t turn against the war all at once. Student protests started in 1964, and it took years for the majority of the country to agree that we should withdraw. There were plenty of Americans who saw the anti-war side as unpatriotic or even treasonous.
This is so obvious, I don’t get why it needs mentioning. What does purposely sending people to kill and be killed have to do with controlling a contagious disease? They’re both important and involve dying?
Some people do die of old age at 83.
Others die of old age at 93, or 103, or even older. They do not necessarily spend those 10 or 20 or more years sitting in a chair staring at the wall with no minds left. I’ve known people older than 83 – a number of them – who were still quite active and doing work that helped others.
Nope.
We decided that it’s inevitable; which is not the same thing.
People dying of covid-19 isn’t inevitable. It’s due to the choices of a whole lot of people – very often of other people than the ones dying.
I’ve got to say that I find this entire attitude of ‘so what if older people die, they’re all useless and about to die anyway’, which I’ve run into here and elsewhere, to be nasty and reprehensible. I certainly hope I’d have thought so back when I wasn’t one of the people being talked about. (I’m not 83, yet. But I’m heading fast for 70. My family history includes a number of people who made it to their 90’s or very late 80’s, still on their feet.)
There are enough people who seem to feel like that, though, that maybe this sort of thing will have an impression (no gruesome pictures involved):
This is unfortunately probably true.
And it’s why those bodies are going to pile up in their home town, where they may be among them.
And we throw people in jail over it: in particular, for supplying it to someone else.
(Whether this is the best response is another question; and no, I’m not suggesting putting all the people who go around in public unmasked, or even all those who host events that might become superspreaders, in jail for doing so. But if you’re going to make comparisons like that, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to not also compare the societal reactions.)
Not settled, but possible:
But we’ve been throwing drug dealers in jail forever. Can’t call that a reaction to the opioid crisis. That’s like reminding everyone to wash their hands was a response to covid.
Right, sometimes an 83-year-old who contracts COVID and dies is someone who would have lived another couple of decades if not for the disease. And sometimes they’re someone who would have died at about that point anyway, even without COVID. And it’s difficult to tell which is which. I didn’t say that nobody is dying of COVID; I said that it’s hard to tell how many are dying of COVID.
Right, but there’s a limit. Comparing a storm that kills people in Florida and one in California wouldn’t get caveats about the average older age of the Florida deaths.
Nor, I hope, would it get people claiming that the deaths of those in retirement communities didn’t matter, because society decided long ago that “old people dying is OK” (quote from Chronos, not from FigNorton, in case that wasn’t clear.).
Do you think opiate addiction is a new problem? It isn’t. And making opiates illegal, and putting people in jail for them, most certainly was a response to opiate addiction.
Well, yes I do think the current opioid epidemic is somewhat “new” in many ways. I mean, plenty of diseases have killed millions of people and we think Covid is new.
It hit the largest city in the country that is also a powerhouse of transportation. it was absolutely inevitable that it spread.
It’s simplistic to think people weren’t going to flee NYC after it it went viral and there was nothing stopping them from normal travel prior to that.
On further thought I wonder if there is some value in rubbing people’s noses in it.
It’s like poverty. We all know it is there and heartbreaking but keeping it at some remove doesn’t help solve it. Instead it just becomes this sad thing people are kind of aware of and kind of sympathize with but mostly ignore.
When it comes to a pandemic maybe there needs to be a supplier of the horror that is happening. Sure, many may run from it but they can’t completely hide from it.
I’m hard pressed to see why someone shining a bright light on reality is a bad thing…even if many choose to ignore it.
Well, we all get to choose our own realities, in a sense, and that has nothing to do with the pandemic in particular. It’s just the way our brains work – and thank goodness for that, else we’d never be able to function. Or, perhaps a better way to say it is that our realities are, in a sense, chosen for us. The amount of sensory experience that surrounds us, at almost all times, might be overwhelming if we were forced to do something with it all. And perhaps the same is true of ‘objective truths’, if you want to look at it that way.
I’ve tried to make this point before on this board, but let me try again. I think not near enough allowance is made for the way that reasonable people can look at the same data – the same raw, objective facts – and arrive at different conclusions. You might see ‘the bright light of reality’ of the ‘horror that is happening’, when you look at any one death from covid. Others might see that light just as bright when they look at the 99 people, or so, who recover without too much trouble from the same thing that took the life of that one.
I mean, couldn’t there equally be a propaganda campaign that draws from that pool of people? Couldn’t there be a diverse group of people, young and old, sitting around a room talking about their experience? Maybe grandma says she got it back in the summer and was knocked on her ass for a day or two but now feels strong as an ox. Maybe the college kid says he was told he had it but never would have known. Stories like this go around the room, and all nod. Then the narrator says something like ‘COVID-19. It’s not the Black Plague. Don’t let it take over your life’.
And I guess the only difference in these two…let’s call them ‘information campaigns’…is whether you, yourself and with your own built-in ways of dealing with all the sensory information you get on a daily basis, are more swayed by the one or by the 99. That’s a legitimate conversation to have, and it’s not given near enough respect on this board.
The bright light of reality also shines on a population that statistically is not affected by the virus itself but has to endure long term loss of jobs and businesses.
Instead of focusing on the vulnerable and separating them out we’ve destroyed millions of people’s financial lives who posed little risk to each other.
People’s noses are rubbed raw with your message.
“Rubbed raw”?
The whole point of the OP is that they are not having their noses rubbed in it and can more easily pretend that the whole thing is a hoax.
Country once upset at 50,000 needless deaths now seems ok with 250,000.
Yeah, the OP is wrong. The regular channels have shown lots of freezer trucks and body bags. Lots of nurses and doctors faces beaten down by double shifts and mask wearing. This is just not working the way you want either because some people stay away from mainstream media or simply don’t react to the scary pictures the way you expect.
I saw a useful comparison the other day. The case-fatality rate for Covid has ranged from about 1% to 15% (Mortality Risk of COVID-19 - Our World in Data) (varying depending on how many cases occurred in a particular nation and what the age distribution for that nation is - or was). How big a number is 1% or 15%? Well, during the Normandy invasion (from D-Day through August), the death rate for Allied forces was about 3.5%.