Well why waste time with a trial when you can go directly to sentencing? As much as I want Zimmerman to get his day in court it is not contingent on my desires but of the way the legal system operates. To understand this better consider the trial of the Ft Hood Shooter. There is ZERO argument that he didn’t do the shooting yet his trial has yet to begin. How long ago did that happen?
I’ll try to put one thing to rest, though I’ll fail. Is is absolutely possible to break your nose without the nose bleeding or significantly swelling. It has happened to me. It may be unusual, but it is certainly possible. I did not know the nose was broken in an accident until weeks later, when it was X-rayed after I went to a doctor about chronic and severe nasal congestion.
My dad broke his nose (maybe) playing high school basketball and a doctor told him some 45 years later that he had most likely had a broken nose in his life based on an x-ray, since he never received any treatment at the time and didn’t even come out of the game his assumption is it must have happened then, but he can’t even be 100% sure on that.
What should truly lay it to rest is while it may be possible to diagnose an extremely obvious broken nose from a video tape, it isn’t possible to diagnostically eliminate the possibility of a break from a video tape. If Zimmerman went to a doctor those files will come out at trial and all will be known at that time. If he didn’t, we’ll know that too.
I came to the same conclusion after examining the data in Zillow and narrowing it down to two units. At that point it seemed irrelevant for my reconstruction, since any odd unit was the same with a slight advantage to the units at the ends of the building.
Do you watch Monk reruns also?
When I got the stitches on my face, it was a gory mess until the MD cleaned it up. Right afterwards, you could barely tell I was injured. The next morning is when the spectacular bruising showed up.
True, no doubt that a arrest would have been best publicity-wise. And, you’re right, it also might have not been a legal blunder.
I am glad you agree about the GJ, however. They will make a decision without politics, based upon all the evidence. No doubt one or two members of the Jury will be biased and able to hide that bias during selection. But there’ll be 16-20 people, of all “races” sexes, etc. And, they won;t be worried about re-election or being sued.
Hey this is Florida. It took three years to convict Casey Anthony for 4 misdemeanors. :o
I don’t disagree with the idea that Zimmerman should get a fair trial, but I’m worried about how many people are going to die to give him a fair trial . I bet a lot of public officials are thinking the same thing. I have friends that live in Sanford. Am I wrong to be concerned with their safety?
I have heard more than one person fret over this possibility. I am not sure how likely such a thing is.
Do you remember Rodney King? Do you remember the 92 LA Riots? This will be worse.
Ooh. The scary “angry blacks” thing again.
Can we please stop with this kind of speculating? I’ve had to watch folks contort and twist and give benefit of the doubt every which way, even when it defies all common sense and reeks of much legalistic bullshit. I’ve learned a lot and appreciated the intelligent input (even if I don’t agree with it or appreciate the tone in which it is delivered). But I am just not in the mood to entertain the “rioting blacks” stuff. Go create another thread with that bullshit, please.
The hysteria is going both ways.
Over 2500 posts in that’s probably the first I’ve seen anyone genuinely talk about riots, although I think you’ve been waiting with baited breath for someone to go there (and the fact he went to the Rodney King riots is essentially perfect for your narrative.)
On the flip side for 2500 plus pages people have been saying due process is “legalistic bullshit” and “wanting all the evidence” is the same as “accepting everything Zimmerman says at face value because we’re anti-black racists.”
You know, there are more threads about this topic than this one. Why don’t you check them out before lecturing me?
And yes, I believe SYG and the defense being made for it is “legalistic bullshit”. It is a horrible law and anyone who doesn’t see the giant holes in it are full of bullshit. Apparently being a lawyer means you can’t issue a judgement against the worth of a particular law. Well, I am not a lawyer and have never pretended to be.
I haven’t accused anyone of being a racist. I don’t feel the need to apologize for those who have, though, just like you don’t feel the need to apologize for the “angry blacks” remark or stupid comments made by JoelUpchurch. When you start calling him hysterical and “shrill”, then I will believe you are actually objective and dispassionate.
In a week of leaked high school disciplinary records, police reports and police station surveillance video in the war over public perception of Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman, more details have emerged about Zimmerman’s history of violence.
Zimmerman, the 28-year-old Sanford, Fla., neighborhood watch volunteer who shot the unarmed 17-year-old Martin to death last month, was fired from a job securing illegal house parties for “being too aggressive,” according to the New York Daily News, which quoted a former colleague of Zimmerman’s. According to the co-worker, Zimmerman worked for two agencies that provided security for house parties from 2001 to 2005.
“Usually he was just a cool guy,” said the former co-worker, who the newspaper didn’t name. “But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When dude snapped, he snapped.” The Daily News said Zimmerman earned $50 to $100 a night for the parties. He was fired for being too aggressive with patrons.
“He had a temper and he became a liability,” the newspaper quoted the former co-worker as saying. “One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted,” he said. “It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.”
The new portrayal of Zimmerman comes as distinctly different images of both Martin and Zimmerman are being floated by people on both sides of the Martin killing. Zimmerman told police he shot Martin Feb. 26 in self defense after being jumped from behind. He has not been charged.
I’m on the fence as to whether I can even keep participating in this thread, I really do think anyone who has been posting since the first few pages has probably pretty much said all they need to say on this matter at least until something much more material develops.
The way I see it is very different. Consider some silly example of something I find “to be deeply immoral.” For example, owning a goat. Let’s say a guy is found to be owning a goat, which I find immoral. However, the law says he can own a goat as long as his property is above 1.5 acres in size, his property is 1.51 acres in area so he is legally permitted to own a goat.
It may be “legalistic bullshit” that he’s getting away with something I view as immoral because of a 0.01 acre, but my whole point is it doesn’t matter how bad what happened is you cannot arrest people if the law doesn’t say it is appropriate. Maybe the law needs changed, I’ve certainly come out in favor of entertaining that notion. But what I can’t get on board with is the screams that Zimmerman must be arrested, or that he must be convicted of some crime. If, under the “legalistic bullshit” that is the law, it isn’t appropriate, then it shouldn’t happen. The law has to be firm and impartial, for both the just and the wicked.
I apologize for the angry blacks comment. Not because I think I shouldn’t have said it, but because my intent was not to upset or piss anyone here off with that comment, that’s obviously what happened and for that I do sincerely apologize.
The point I was trying to make, and perhaps could have made better, is that I believe a political response to this incident started based on the simple reality of race politics in the United States. I’m fine with that when it results in things like the Civil Rights Act, or investigations by the DOJ into corrupt police officers violating the rights of minorities. I’m less okay with that when it results in someone being treated differently as a defendant under the laws of Florida than other defendants under the laws of Florida.
I do think JoelUpchurch was hysterical in his Rodney King comments, I wouldn’t say he’s shrill since I haven’t seen enough of his posts in this thread to say one way or another.
The Daily News Say they have copies of the EMS documents but they are apparently being coy about sharing details.
Do you make these kind of subtle switches in real life? How do people react when you do?
I agree that it would be a good idea, as said as much earlier.
So I never disagreed, strenuously or otherwise, with the idea that a cop might want to.
What I said was that it’s not that common for cops to do it.
Can you please quote the portion of that article that rebuts that statement?
When police use of force is involved, you’re right. You have taken the author’s point about those situations and simply declared that it’s appropriate for any situation in which a suspect has been injured. It doesn’t say it’s common to do so. It doesn’t say it’s a breach of statute or law or regulation to fail to do so. Does it?
I imagine you searched desperately for cites and the best you found was this one, which does not say that it’s common for cops to document refusal of medical treatment when the injuries were inflicted by persons other than police. Does it?
The best cite you could find doesn’t support your point. It recommends a course of action n situations somewhat similar to the current one, but distinguished by the obvious motive cops have to protect record when they were the users of force.
And the FBI Bulletin is a recommendation to local police. In general, the idea is to encourage local police to use better practices than they are doing now.
Yep. They also are breathlessly telling us the breaking news that George Zimmerman survived the incident:
“EMS tapes show George Zimmerman did not sustain fatal injuries in encounter with Trayvon Martin”
I’ll retract every word I said in post 2649 if it will satisfy you. Do you want something more?
Not true at all:
I have been lurking for the most part because when there’s breaking news, this thread is sure to grab it. Lately, I’ve only been commenting when I have sincere questions. But some craziness I can’t ignore.
If this were about something as silly as a goat, I would agree.
But this isn’t about a grass-munching goat. It’s about a person who got killed. And it’s about a law that gives a pass to people who fight with guns when they do not have to. If a person can’t get a little worked about people killing each other without others accusing them of whatever-insult-you-can-come-up-with, then there’s something wrong with us. It’s not like people are freaking out about something trivial. They are imagining themselves, their children, their nephews in Martin’s predicament. They are trying to figure out what in the hell would make everyone agree that Zimmerman needs to be arrested. Even the lawyerest lawyer has to agree that it is really hard to understand what is going on here, if you do not understand every detail of the law. I guess ya’ll can sue us for not passing the bar.
Laws are drafted by humans and humans are fallible creatures. Their interpretation is also subject to fallibility. We’ve had a ton of immoral laws on our books, and tons of erroneous judgment calls. I have an analytical mind too, and I know how fun it is to be pedantic. But I also know how to switch from “I am just telling you how it is” and “You know what? This is fucked up, no matter how you slice it.”
It seems like just uttering the words “This is fucked up” is tantamount to calling for a lynch mob to some people. I’m sorry, but I don’t need to wait for all the facts before I can judge a situation as being all kinds of fucked up. It’s fucked up for multiple reasons. A person doesn’t have to be unreasonable to think this and express it.
Thank you.