How did they end up behind someone’s house if the altercation started in the middle of the street? Is Zimmerman asking us to believe that Martin, unarmed, would chase this much bigger man who is carrying a gun the entire time, back into the wet grass so he could pelt him to death with skittles?
He was hopped up on Skittles. He probably thought Zimmerman was a lepruchaun with glandular issues.
I don’t know why people keep using Zimmerman’s “Hispanicness” as evidence that he isn’t racist or prejudiced. Some of the most vocal racists I have ever encountered were Cuban Americans from Florida.
This is as close as I’ve seen, and it puts to rest any questions about Martin ducking down “alleys” and being in people’s “backyards”.
CMC fnord!
Fear, of course.
He would have had to run, if we are to believe him when he told 911 that Martin ran away. Either that, or he drove and caught up with him. We do know he bridged the gap somehow.
Which again assumes a kid would launch an attack on a much bigger man, who is carrying a weapon. Thus, the only way you can make Zimmermans conduct justified is to have the kid behave in a manner that defies normal human behavioral patterns. And not only that, have the kid behave a way that is inconsistent with his previous history, if we are to believe his family, friends, and teachers. But keep going.
Did you hear the tapes? That was not whining in the slightest. It was blood curdling screams. Isn’t it a crazy coincidence that Zimmerman–the only armed person in the conflict–would be the one crying in exactly the same fashion as someone you’d expect being held at gunpoint would? It’s like, if I didn’t know any better, I’d think it was him who was about to be shot, instead of the unarmed toothpick giving him the beat down of his life.
3 witnesses have since come forward and said it was the boy who was yelling. If I have to choose between believing some cops and believe eye-witnesses, I’m gonna go with the latter.
None of this squares with what witnesses saw or heard. But thanks for the ridiculousness finish. For a minute there I thought you were actually saying that this could have happened. Good one.
I wasn’t suggesting that he wasn’t racist. I was noting that this doesn’t seem to fit the previously suggested paradigm of cops favoring him because he’s white.
Newsflash: They are not mutually exclusive things.
Last year some time we had a thread criticizing how Dopers regularly act as though there is no such thing as white Latinos, and I remember so many posters taking offense at the supposedly ridiculous assertion that folks thought that way. And now here we are.
It looks like the DOJ is now investigating this. Unless they find something that can prompt the State officials to charge him with a State crime, I don’t really know that they can get Zimmerman for a Federal crime.
The Federal civil rights violation requires the government to prove that someone acted intentionally with specific intent to do something the law forbids. There is no negligence/recklessness civil rights violations (whereas many statutes have recklessness type manslaughter crimes.)
It was Zimmerman’s father who first said that his son was Hispanic and therefore not a racist.
It was, and apparently Zimmerman grew up in a “mixed race” household.
Blacks and Hispanics are some of the most racist of all Americans though, so that’s not really indicative of anything. Lots of Hispanic people absolutely hate black people and vice versa.
CBS Article on Federal Investigation
An interesting excerpt from a Florida defense attorney:
I think if that’s really the situation with prosecuting self defense claims in Florida, combined with earlier articles I’ve read in which Florida prosecutors have complained about no longer being able to effectively prosecute some self-defense cases aside from the Martin case (where we have no idea the specific motivations) there is a concern that in Florida police and prosecutors have essentially “given up” on cases where suspects declare self-defense because the law makes them “losers” so to speak.
That could be troubling for Florida if criminals become more savvy in crafting their self defense statements to police, as I imagine one way stupid criminals would still get caught up is by saying conflicting or provably false things to police in their statement. I don’t know how true to life it is, but a common trope in fiction is that prosecutors are very conservative because for purposes of promotion and advancement they like to tout their conviction percentage. Taking on cases where conviction is not almost certain hurts that percentage and thus many prosecutors are loathe to do so.
you with the face, nice attempt at trying to revive the Chewbaca Defense. “If I can throw a bunch of wild-ass speculation around and shout you down enough, then you must arrest that man for murder.”
I can’t believe this thread is 14 pages long when a good :rolleyes: is all the response your posts deserve. Poor little under-utilized :rolleyes:.
The Orlando Sentinel appears to have new information. They say that only one shot was fired and not two.
I believe Martin’s parents have identified the pleas as his, I hadn’t read the police ID’d them as Zimmerman’s.
[quote=“Martin_Hyde, post:690, topic:615504”]
CBS Article on Federal Investigation
An interesting excerpt from a Florida defense attorney:
An interesting excerpt from a Florida defense attorney:
This is a misleading statement The “stand you ground” case law in Washington State predated Florida by many years. Florida’s concealed carry law was actually modeled after Washington state also.
Hmm…just as a thought - it was a gated community right? And he was the watch captain - could they try to attach the management committee or the community itself in someway (I presume there is some form of corporation set up to manage the community rubbish collection etc etc that probably carries some form of public liability insurance)/
That certainly seems possible to me, particularly if the homeowners committee knew that Zimmerman carried a gun while on watch.
The Feds have released a statement:
Also mentioned in that link, there is a National Neighborhood Watch Program with 22,000 chapters nation-wide. In their guidelines, members are explicitly forbidden to carry weapons. The Sanford police believed Zimmerman was a member, which he was not. Considering all their dealings with him, I wonder if they knew he was armed. I really think they should release the tapes of the 46 other calls Zimmerman made too.
You, at least, acknowledge that you’re about to embark on wild postulations before doing so.
The only thing that I am postulating is: we don’t know. We don’t have the evidence that the police have. Until we have that, it’s speculation to construct any specific scenario.
I am saying this because I feel the impression I’m leaving is support for Zimmerman. I don’t have any sympathy for Zimmerman, who I believe acted very poorly by the uncontradicted evidence we have. But “poorly” =/= “criminally.” And we do not have uncontradicted evidence of criminal acts.
Yet.
Martin on the phone before his death. Girl told him to run. Martin said I’m not running; I’ll walk fast. Eventually does run and stops when he thinks he lost Zimmerman. Fight ensues. Girl thinks Zimmerman started it.
For a shooting that supposedly lacks so much evidence to go by, there certainly doesn’t seem to be a shortage of telephone recordings tracking the last moments of this boy’s life. This is really amazing to me. Law and Order shit.