I think it’s important to highlight what the other side advocates. You have on side that advocates letting the State, which has all the evidence we lack, conduct an investigation. You have one side that has repeatedly stated no final determination has been made, and that there is plenty in the evidence we have before us to explain why there is doubt as to the ability to convict Zimmerman.
The other side is demanding an immediate arrest, this side is made up of “community and civil rights leaders” and random people on the SDMB. It’s precisely the opposite of civil rights for someone to be arrested over the opinion of law enforcement because of the anger and outrage of a mob.
Seriously. Every day on this board people shoot down stories that are much more credible than this armed thug’s ludicrous claim of self defense against an unarmed slightly built teen.
Is it the contention of some people that any claim of self defense, no matter how preposterous, must be taken at face value unless it is refuted by video or multiple eyewitnesses? If so it makes laws against murder somewhat pointless.
No. If someone is simply running after you, you do not have the legal right to strike your pursuer in the nose.
You remind me of the cartoon Road Runner, who was able to stand on empty air in defiance of the law of gravity because, as he told us via a sign he held up, he had never studied law.
The mere fact that you don’t know or believe the law does not render it invisible or inapplicable.
Right, we have been very polite with you with the face but this is a poster who unfortunately is too biased by their personal circumstances to look at any scenarios involving a black person and the government or a black person and a white person and look at it dispassionately.
Actually I’ll revise that. No one has ever said we must accept any claim by Zimmerman at face value. But U.S. and Florida law seems pretty clear it is the job of the State to prove Zimmerman’s guilt and to disprove any substantiated self-defense claim.
It isn’t the case that you just get to go into court and scream “THAT IS OUTLANDISH!!!” dramatically and suddenly Zimmerman’s self defense claim evaporates into thin air.
And did they ever say that he would be charged? And didn’t the chief of police say that he didn’t think there was enough evidence for an arrest? And weren’t there a bunch of people in this thread arguing that, since no charges were made against Mr. Zimmerman, then law enforcement people must know stuff that makes his claim of self-defense believable? I didn’t hear anyone in here saying “beyond a doubt, this case will be referred to a grand jury.”
Yeah, he was poor and black, that nobody teenager doesn’t really deserve all this attention. Now, if he was some rich white kid, maybe the son of governor or something, then we’d have something worth talking about!
When that situation occurs, let me know. For now, I don’t give a shit about your loaded hypotheticals, because we are talking about an actual situation in which an actual unarmed 17 year old kid was actually shot and actually killed.
Great for you. I marvel at your superior temperature tolerance. Me, on the other hand, I live further south than you do, and if it were 60 out I would be wearing a hoodie. Does that mean I would be up to no good too? The point is, him wearing a hoodie is indicative of nothing. The fact that you think it wasn’t cold enough to warrant his clothing choices is irrelevant. Implying that the only reason one would be wearing a hoodie in “not cold enough weather” is that you are up to no good is also stupid.
So you keep asserting. If that is true I have a hard time seeing how any murderer has ever been convicted. Why didn’t OJ’s attorneys think of this? Ron and Nichole had him outnumbered two to one, and he didn’t have a gun. He could have spared himself the expense of a trial.
ETA: It’s like that south park episode. You can shoot any endangered animal you want, as long as you yell “It’s coming right at us!” first.
I hate to break it to you, but you are showing your age. I live in sunny Southern California. Legions of teenagers and young adults walk around in hoodies, in schools, shopping malls, and in the street. The general reaction is that this is normal attire, not the camouflage outfit of an evil-doer.
Sure. But you see Zimmerman had no way of knowing whether or not the kid was a innocent 17yo or a violent 21yo felon with a concealed weapon. I mean, it’s not like he was 4yo riding a tricycle. It’s hard to tell a 17yo from a 21 yo nowadays.
And, it’s not relevant that the kid was 17 either. Either Zimmerman acted in self-defense or he didn’t. The age of the other guy doesn’t enter into it. Even if the kid had been a 21yo violent felon, it wouldn’t change whether Zimmerman was right or not.
So, the fact that the kid was 17 isn’t relevant. It’s only important if you want to load the argument emotionally.
You are misstating the case here. Not everyone is advocating an immediate arrest. What I hear people saying is that, based on the evidence available to us, the claims of self-defense are not credible. What I have been saying is that, if the evidence given is enough to justify self-defense, then lots of cases of shooting without witnesses could unjustifiably be unprosecutable because of these stupid self-defense laws.
It does matter, because in society, and in law, we give more leeway to younger people to behave stupidly, we expect that younger people have less judgment, etc. Why do you think that we have different laws for juveniles vs adults?
I don’t know whether the guy sitting next to me on the train isn’t a serial killer just waiting to murder me, either. I guess I should just preemptively label him such and shoot him before he can shoot me.
No, actually I’m more concerned about a nation in which unarmed teenagers can get shot in cold blood and some people call them “nobodies”. This boy was an innocent victim. I don’t know and I don’t care if he punched Zimmerman, it is not a reason to take his life. There is no reason for an unarmed person to be shot. If the law says it’s okay, then the law is an ass. Zimmerman could have let the police deal with his concerns, he could have simply held the boy at gunpoint until the police arrived, he could have done a number of things except what he actually did, commit cold-blooded murder.