I checked and the closest weather station, which is about 1/4 of a mile away, and it show it started raining a little before 7pm.
http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?ID=KFLLAKEM2&month=2&day=26&year=2012
Why would you take Zimmerman’s word on something that is easy to check?
[QUOTE=monstro]
He posts reams and reams of legalistic expertise, supposedly completely dispassionate and all-suffering of us hysterical fools. And then suddenly–as soon as it can longer be denied that Zimmerman is a dirty liar–he starts calling out the “angry blacks” and the “nobodies”.
[/QUOTE]
Heh, I noticed that too. It’s like at first, when it seemed pretty clear this whole thing was going to be swept under, the tone was all like “It was such a tragic situation, Martin seemed like a good kid and Zimmerman is an idiot, but what can we do? The law is the law. But I feel your pain.”
But now that the state has decided to give this to a grand jury, you’d a thought blacks were rioting in the streets and looting by some of the reactions in this thread. Mob rule, really? Evidence against Zimmerman is going to be reviewed by group of his peers, and this actually bothers people?
So what if it does? I personally don’t care if monstro is the regional V.P. of the BLACK PANTHERS: MILITANT OFFSHOOT HATE WHITEY DIVISION, it doesn’t mean squat in whether she’s right or wrong in this matter and all the ad homs in the world will not change that.
But, for the record, I am white. Very white. I am “I own Julie Andrews CDs” white. So perhaps somehow my opinion will mean more to you than monstro’s does when I say this case makes me want to vomit. Whether he meets the legal definition of one in Florida or not, Zimmerman killed an innocent boy, and I hope the piece of shit’s head goes not down to Sheol in peace.
If he is not arrested, I predict that sooner or later he will be killed “in self defense”. I won’t be glad when that happens but I sure as hell won’t shed a tear or even say “Aw”. And I hope every member of the police force associated with this case loses their job.
And again, I don’t know Florida law and I freely concede it, but he meets the definition of murder that I think most decent people would agree on (i.e. he killed an unarmed person unnecessarily). It is better he was never born, and I feel much the same way about the responding officers. I lean left but I’m not a kneejerk liberal, I’m not awash in white liberal guilt, but I think only the self deluded would claim race is not an issue in the fact there has been no arrest.
Authorities are human beings. They are not gods. They are capable of being corrupt, and/or making mistakes. 99.9% of the time prosecutors make decisions without any serious public questioning. I have thoroughly reviewed all the publicly available details in this case, and I believe that a gross miscarriage of justice has occurred. Having come to this conclusion, it would be wrong of me to simply shut up and blindly trust what the Sanford Police Chief says about the case.
I think, because of the nature of the case it wasn’t directly evident that Zimmerman had committed a crime. by this I mean it takes time to develop it to the point it goes to a grand jury despite an overwhelming “feeling” that he has committed a crime. Based on the initial read my feeling has always been that it will move beyond that point and Zimmerman will have his day in court but the time lag involved is perceived as an injustice.
Obviously Florida has some freewheelin’ attitudes about what constitutes being “without regard for human life”, but still, a sizable number of people think that stalking someone who has done nothing wrong with a gun in your hand kinda qualifies as both imminently dangerous and having a disregard for human life. Especially the life of the human you are stalking. After being told not to by the authorities.
The vast majority of the information we’ve gotten points to Zimmerman acting like a pseudo-cop/vigilante for a long time, and he was certainly doing so this time as well. That was his design and purpose here. And it’s an illegal design and purpose, even in Florida.
Again with the gun and the general POV, “reasonable” being the point of disagreement, of course…
Guy on the phone sounded pretty spiteful to me…
Yet again we’re back to the gun, and the stalking (AFTER being told not to, especially)
And, after all:
It’s very clear from this thread that not everyone would, with the information we have thus far, vote to convict Zimmerman of second degree murder under Florida law. But it’s also clear that a whole lot of other people absolutely would.
Yep. Zimmerman was arrested in Orange County in 2005 on charges of resisting arrest with violence and battery on a law enforcement officer.
Not only that, but here’s an interesting article about some interesting studies that might help explain Zimmerman’s behavior (the gun lovers are going to freak):
Amen.
Not a thing.
I’ll stand right up with my middle-aged white woman self and say that if Trayvon had been white this never would have happened, so in that sense you’re absolutely right.
[QUOTE=Magiver]
Based on the initial read my feeling has always been that it will move beyond that point and Zimmerman will have his day in court but the time lag involved is perceived as an injustice.
[/QUOTE]
In my opinion rightfully. If a black teenager had killed a white guy in “self defense” his face would have been touching concrete with the barrel of a gun at the back of his head and anybody who thinks otherwise has never lived in a predominantly black area of town.
What would be the point?
Martin wearing a hoodie is not relevant to whether or not he posed a threat to Zimmerman’s life. A hoodie is not a weapon, nor is it suspicious to wear one. Raining or not. Cold or hot.
Today I had on a fleece vest despite it being quite warm today (upper 70s). Not only am I more sensitive to cool breezes than an average person, but I was using the pockets to secure my keys and wallet. Would it be reasonable for someone to view me with suspicion based on this run-of-the-mill attire? No. My vest could easily have a hood on it, and it would be equally innocuous if I had turned it up.
If we’re going to focus so much on Trayvon’s attire (which matters naught), we should do the same regarding Zimmerman. Was he wearing anything that would identify him as “authority”? A badge? A uniform? An embossed cap? Anything that would announce, “Hey, I’m not a random guy looking to hurt you. So please do not hurt me.” That is more important to the discussion than what Trayvon was wearing. But even that is ancillary to the issue of whether Zimmerman’s story makes sense.
I know, amazing, isn’t it?
C’mon, Sampiro, you know better than that… anyone who thinks otherwise - okay, I’ll be more specific: any American-raised adult over the age of 25 who thinks otherwise - is willfully embracing a fantasy. This is America.
Worst. Lynch-mob. Ever. 
CMC fnord!
I would just like to thank the white posters who have waved their hands in this thread. It is heartening to see that although race may have played a role in this case, the public outrage is crossing the color lines. It is not a bunch of “angry blacks”, but angry PEOPLE, who have made this an issue. I am relieved that there seems to be some unity for a change.
There are a couple of Dopers who have expressed sadness/anger about this case who do not share my politics and who I rarely agree with about anything. That makes me feel good, too.
Latest “Are you fucking kidding me?” from Zimmerman’s story… he didn’t get out of his car to approach Martin, he “he had stepped out of his truck to check the name of the street he was on.”
Because he couldn’t see the street sign from his car…:rolleyes:
And he needed to because he suddenly had no idea where he could possibly be…
in his own neighborhood.:smack: The one he’s been essentially patrolling for months. :rolleyes: And this strange need to see this particular sign just coincidentally occurred mere steps away from the kid he’d called 911 about a few moments earlier.
Right.
And you’re the lunatic.
Good lord…
Where to begin with that. Lets start with the fact that you created a different scenario and thus a strawman to make a point.
Lets flip the ACTUAL event. Had a black adult shot a white teenager in a claimed self defense event nothing would have changed. It would still take time to run it through a grand jury. It takes time to do this because it’s not a cut-and-dried case and botching it out of the gate serves no purpose.
A thread regarding gun related deaths correlated by race and age would be an interesting read and I encourage you to start one.
White woman chiming in here to say I couldn’t agree more. I HAVE lived in a predominantly black and poor part of town for several years (during college a whole bunch of us rented a very large house in a very bad part of town) and have seen first-hand the difference in police response between black and white people. In fact, I have personally been asked by a 911 operator “Is the victim black or white? Is the assailant black or white?” Not what color clothing/jackets/identifiers they might have had on, but WERE THEY BLACK OR WHITE.
I just want to say that OF COURSE the fact that you’re black and you or someone you care about has probably had to deal with profiling makes this more personal to you, but in spite of what others seem to believe THERE’S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. As a gay man I get more emotionally invested in stories about injustice against gays. I’m guessing Cambodian Americans get more interested in stories about injustice to Cambodian Americans. Anybody who says that their own demographics don’t have some bearing on their emotions is either lying or has an emotional detachment disorder.
However, feeling something more personally than others doesn’t mean you’re too hysterical to make an intelligent assessment, in spite of what some people on here seem to think.
(And frankly if you weren’t an ‘angry black’ before you’d have really good cause after this thread.)
[QUOTE=Magiver]
A thread regarding gun related deaths correlated by race and age would be an interesting read and I encourage you to start one.
[/QUOTE]
I hope that I’m misreading this, but are you really taking the opportunity of an unarmed 17 year old’s death to advocate for profiling?
Your point was off the mark. If the situation was reversed, nothing would have changed. Your example was a drill down to a single factor of race and I responded to that.
So you honestly think that there’s no dichotomy in black and white with how they are treated by the police? Cops behave exactly by the book and the same in all cases with no racism whatever, or at least not enough to be statistically significant. Yes or no?
If it was a black cop and a white youth walking through a gated community at night, the white youth wouldn’t have been followed.
??? Nothing would have been different? The cops would have said “Black adult shooting white teenager clearly felt threatened, no need to arrest him.” ??? You want us to believe that YOU believe that’s what would have happened if the races had been reversed?
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I don’t believe it for a second. If you believe you believe that, then I think you are profoundly lacking in self-awareness and are stunningly successful at bullshitting yourself.