I would.
Further, were I in a position to do so, I would feel compelled to defend Zimmerman against an attempted murder.
From my perspective, the issue is not that the fact pattern suggests he committed murder, but that the fact pattern is suggestive enough of wrongdoing that he needs to be arrested and tried.
Whether or not he is guilty is not for me to say. But I think the failure of the police to even arrest him speaks volumes -and all bad.
Your definition of what constitutes truth and what constitutes dishonest argument is, shall we say, creative.
Did anyone see Dateline NBC? I caught it late but I think a witness said in the end they found Zimmerman straddling Trayvon after the shot. Please correct me if I heard it wrong as I wasn’t expecting it to be on and caught it while in a rush. What his father was told about how the events unfolded is a little weird.
The witness said that after the shot (there was no indication how long after the shot) they found Zimmerman standing over Trayvon, straddling his body. Then he turned to them and told them to call 911.
I hope it doesn’t happen and I would denounce it without hesitation. I can’t imagine any scenario where that wouldn’t be plain old vigilante murder. There is no irony intended there, Martin. The reason I put so much onus on Zimmerman is his wanna-be cop actions. It fits the definition of vigilantism. Carrying a lethal weapon is an awesome responsibility, one I would prefer be restricted to law enforcement. If civilians are going to be permitted to carry, then I would forbid concealment. But that’s a whole other discussion.
Puzzled in the sense that you can’t think of a likely explanation?
Zimmerman, by his own admission, unreasonably believed that Martin was a messed up criminal. He was heard saying assholes like Martin always get away. He was heard saying that Martin was running away from him, and he said he was following him. This despite the cops saying they didn’t need him to, and despite the danger of following someone you think is a criminal.
Isn’t it possible that, not wanting a messed up asshole criminal to get away yet again before the cops showed up, Zimmerman decided to grab Martin when it looked like he was going to run again? We’ll never know, because he killed him.
'cuz eight burglaries and nine thefts and one shooting in the neighborhood in the year prior to the incident are not enough to make anyone living there a bit edgy.
Everything is “possible”. But if you have no evidence, it’s just fantasies.
These witnesses say that after the shooting, Zimmerman was kneeling over Martin, pressing down on his back. They say that they called to Zimmerman three times, and that he looked back at them repeatedly, until after the third time, he told them to call the police.
What is the name of the witness who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman, again?
It’s kinda hard to “kneel” when you have your “foot” on the ground, as the witnesses said. Are you having reading comprehension problems?
John. Would you like the link again?
For your scenario to work, then Martin would have to been shot in the back trying to escape. Zimmerman grabs Martin. Martin breaks Zimmerman’s nose and Zimmerman falls to the ground. Martin tries to run away and Zimmerman shoots him in the back.
There could be some variations, but if there isn’t any gun shot residue on Martin’s body then it will look bad for Zimmerman, since it would indicate that he shot Martin from more than 5 feet way. We also need to explain why Zimmerman would try to grab Martin when Martin was 6 inches taller than Zimmerman and Zimmerman had a gun. It would make more sense for Zimmerman to draw his gun if Martin tried to flee.
Or Zimmerman grabbed Martin and they both fell to the ground during the scuffle. The hit to the nose could have happened any time before or after they were on the ground. It is harder to guess exactly how the fight went than it is to guess who started it.
Given Zimmerman’s own words, it is easy to guess that he would have tried to stop Martin from getting away if it looked like he was about to run again. It is harder to believe that Martin would ask Zimmerman “why are you following me?” while on the phone with his girlfriend, and then attack Zimmerman when he refused to answer and instead asked Martin what he was doing there.
You are starting to become downright comic, Terr…
Not at all. I’m stating exactly what was written, and what was said. Check the links and then check your hostility.
I suspect that the writer of the article misunderstood the witnesses. They are clear in the interview in the other link I gave you that Zimmerman was straddling Martin on his knees and was pressing down on his back. They are clear that they called to him three times before he verbally responded. They are also clear that this was moments after the gunshot.
What’s his last name, Doe? Or is it Smith? Or Bullshit?
Why is his account – given well before the huge publicity hit this case – disbelieved?
“given well before the huge publicity hit this case” can be reason to disbelieve as well as believe, depending on the character or motivation of the witness. Without the scrutiny, one may give taller tales or they may be inclined to be totally honest. An unnecessary clause.
Fair point.
Why is this witness disbelieved, when another witness account is accepted?
The problem with this kind of speculation is that…well… it’s speculation.
I could just easily say, "Given Zimmerman’s own words, it is easy to guess he rudely accused Martin of being a punk that was up to no good, and this made Martin so mad he shoved Zimmerman back with a ‘get out of my face’ kind of move, Zimmerman return the shove, and then Martin hit him in the face.
But of course I’m just guessing, just like you are.
And guessing can’t serve as the basis for an arrest.
Florida law says that a person who uses force as permitted by law is justified in using such force and is immune from both criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of that force. It specifically says that a law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force, but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
That is ludicrous. People’s memory doesn’t improve over time. The older the memory gets, the more chance that a false memory will be introduced. It isn’t a matter of honesty, it is a matter of how the human brain works.
It seems to me the force used was likely unlawful. The police were awfully quick to drop the matter and they seem to have previous racial incidents (homeless man/police lieutenant’s son).
I’ve seen the pro Zimmerman side state Trayvon’s 6’3 height but neglect to mention his 140 weight to show the danger he faced, while the other side calls Trayvon a little boy, as the one witness repeatedly did. I’ve seen Zimmerman’s weight as 250 and 220. I’ve read “self-appointed” neighborhood watch captain, “squeaky clean” and a scrubbed arrest. Opposite poles are speculating to create scenarios that support their position. Although I lean very heavily towards prosecution, I’ll wait until some more real evidence is presented to get louder in my opinions.
I’m very glad that there will be a real investigation now, as well as possible revision of that terrible law.
I said nothing about the accuracy of the memory, only motivation.