Why have animal testing at all?

Okay, if this is too big a question for GQ, please feel free to move it to GD: I’m looking for a factual answer, as far as possible.

What exactly do animal testing labs do? I assume they do animal testing to see if medicines, shampoo, artificial flavourings etc are safe for human consumption, and the levels at which a substance becomes lethal.

I’ve read some of the stuff that the anti-animal testing lobbies put out (have a legal case to pick apart), and they seem to focus on the “poor animal” etc, now, I’m not up for meaningless animal cruelty, but it seems to me that what they do is of at least some importance - I like fido, but if it makes a product kill one less baby, fido goes bye bye.

So, what exactly is the purpose of animal testing, and is it of any importance? Are there legal requirements for animal testing?

Labs that use animal testing do different things. Animal rights groups tend to focus on the cruelest and least practical examples, like smearing cosmetics on rabbits’ eyes to see if they become irritated (the Draize test). As you said, testing for toxicity levels as well as whether something can cause cancer or birth defects is also an important application of animal testing. It’s important to know the toxicity of drugs to determine if they’re safe for human consumption. Also, toxicity tests can be used to determine safe levels for chemicals that people are exposed to in the workplace. Testing artificial flavors and sweeteners is a relatively minor application; it’s just that it’s something we don’t need, so it’s easier for animal rights groups to focus on them.

Animal testing is also important in basic research. For example, when a new drug is developed, it is tested in animals to see if it works and whether it’s safe. This isn’t just because of the ethical concerns about testing potentially dangerous drugs in humans - in some cases, animals might be better for scientific reasons. (For example, it may be easier to study the drug’s effect in a small animal.)

This sort of research is of immense importance both in developing new drugs and in increasing our basic understanding of how the human body works and how it becomes sick. Another example might involve causing cancer in rats to better understand how cancer is caused in humans. Clearly no one would support giving cancer to humans to research how it forms.

Sometimes, animal rights groups argue that animal tests could be replaced by computers. I really don’t know how this can be done, because organisms are extremely complex and can’t be simulated well. Perhaps they assume that, because it’s possible to simulate dissecting a frog on a computer, it’s also possible to simulate animal tests. They also sometimes argue that animal tests are inaccurate and that testing should be done on humans instead. This is not true, because it is understood how animal research will relate to humans, and because animal testing often involves doing things that would be severely unethical to do to humans. To decide if it’s ethical to do these things to animals, we would also have to determine if it’s ethical to lose knowledge that could potentially avoid a lot of suffering for both humans and other animals.

I’m not sure about legal requirements for animal testing, but I do know that any facility that does animal testing has a strict code of ethics for animal research. If a scientist wants to do research in animals, they have to write an application and defend their proposal in front of an animal testing board. If the proposal would cause excessive suffering in animals or would not produce any useful knowledge, it will not be allowed. This isn’t only done when animals will be hurt or killed in research, it’s done for any testing that involves animals.

Animal testing is something that science can’t really do without for now. Perhaps we can do without new shampoos and artificial flavorings, but it’s very hard to justify not doing research on cancer or cystic fibrosis so that an animal doesn’t have to suffer. Besides, many of the animals used in testing are rats and mice that don’t live very long and probably have much less capacity to detect suffering (which, as I said, is kept to a minimum) than humans do. They are also animals that humans frequently kill with traps and poison.

Hooo boy, an answer to this could go on for pages.

The short answer is that the FDA requires it of all new drug applications (NDAs) before permitting use in human clinical trials. Basic safety must be shown in at least 2 species (and usually 1 of them must be rodent).

Now as to why the FDA requires that, there is simply no other way to determine toxicity levels, absorption rates, metabolism profiles, and a host of other critical parameters regarding drug activity (short of just shooting it into people). Clinical trials give the developer some idea what dose levels to start human trials at, what metabolic pathways are likely, and what toxicity levels are.

Animal studies aren’t 100% predictive of course, far from it. Right now they are really all there is.

There are legal requirements in place (lots of them in fact). Animals must be well cared for, and kept as pain-free as possible. It must also be shown that there are no other reasonable alternatives to the use of animals for a study (some modern cell and tissue based assays have replaced was were classically animal studies).
Any lab not following these guidelines can be shut down.

That’s it in a very brief summary. There are literally thousands of more pages of info. You can start here

I’m less familiar with regulations for animal use in cosmetic products, so I’ll let someone more informed comment.

I mean ANIMAL trials give the developer…
Small, but significant, difference.

The labs that I work for use animal models to try to understand disease states (eg. diabetes, kidney failure, atherosclerosis) as an understanding of this can help develop treatments, preventions, therapies, etc.

As of yet, they haven’t been able to make a computer that develops Type II Diabetes, whereas a mouse model is readily available. I imange that the diabetics in the world would prefer that research continues on the mouse model, until the computer is developed.

Animal rights groups do frequently claim that computer models can be used instead of animal tests, though. Does anyone know of an effective example of an animal study that can be simulated electronically? I know nuclear tests can be simulated effectively, but a living system is far more complicated than a nuclear explosion.

I have a feeling that the claim may be based on the simulated dissection software that’s been available for some time, but I most often hear the claim with reference to the Draize test for irritants. I can imagine that it would be possible to estimate the irritant potential of a chemical by estimating its pK[sub]a[/sub], but I can’t see how you could simulate the effect of countless molecules of several chemicals on a rabbit’s eye, let alone the effect a drug might have on thousands of different proteins and biochemical processes (many of which aren’t even well-understood)in an animal.

None (that I’m aware of) that can completely replace animal testing. There are some that can be used along with in-vitro tests prior to Draize testing to weed out highly corrosive materials. Indeed, present day standards only call for Draize testing after earlier testing shows little or no expected irritation.

Remember also that this test measures the response of the eye as an organ, not as a set of seperate tissues. There is no way to simulate that at present. You would need essentially a synthetic eye that was fully functional and lifelike.

As to the question of replacing whole organism testing with computer or tissue assays, that is a pipe dream that is nowhere near reality and may never be. As you state, you would need to understand absolutely EVERYTHING about an organism down to the molecular level, along with how all systems respond as an interconnected whole. You would need, in short, to be able to create an animal from its molecular components.

The easiest way to dismiss this argument though, is financially. Computerized testing would be orders of magnitude cheaper, faster, and easier than doing large animal studies. If someone is insisting that they know of a computerized test that could replace animal testing effectively if only “the drug companies” would allow it, ask them to form a company with you. Your company would soon make Microsoft look like a neighborhood lemonade stand.

Computer simulations can only predict known effects that are programmed into them. Animal tests are the only realsitic way to discover unknown effects.

AFAIK, there is no complete computer simulation of in vivo reactions, and frankly doubt there will be any time soon. Life is too complex; we still don’t understand it, even though biologists and chemists - not to mention other life sciences researchers - have been studying it in a productive scientific fashion for well over a hundred years. Yes, many important things have been unraveled, but there is so very much more that isn’t yet understood.

So if people want cures for diseases that don’t turn around and bite the users unexpectedly (think thalidomide and the horrid birth defects), they’ll have to continue to allow animal testing for a long time to come. Of course, they could always go form their own little utopia or religious community, and reject using medicines and all the other things which use the testing to which they object. Of course, unless they leave this country (and probably most other “advanced” nations), they’re liable to have courts take legal authority over their kids when the kids get sick, so that the kids can be treated using those objectionable medications and procedures that were tested and proven safe on lab animals. Of course, they’ll probably also have to grow their own food … :dubious:

I am opposed to Draize tests (LD-50, which stands for Lethal Dose 50% mortality). Most cosmetics (yup, the only things which now or ever needed LD-50s are things we put on our bodies that ain’t either medicinal or prophylactic (no condom jokes, please) are tested) - and I’m also talking about clothing dyes and other treatments, are tested. I believe that human cell cultures provide an adequate substitute for the animal tests for these substances, since it is possible to use a skin cell culture for those substances which only come in contact with the skin, and cultures of other appropriate tissues for other things. Cell cultures do demonstrate irritability (not the definition that is used to illustrate life, but the one which means adverse effect), and they demonstrate varying degrees of it, which is the entire purpose of the testing.

However, before anyone preens too much over using “Cruelty Free” stuff, take a look at this: Cruelty Free–Not Tested on Animals. And if you think you’re getting something proven safe for your sensitive skin when you buy a product labeled Hypoallergenic, read the linked page.

Sorry if this strays into GD territory, but is anybody* seriously suggesting that this is what we make clones for? :eek:

*Scientist, politician, famous rock star, etc.

If you had a computer model which could accurately predict in-vivo behaviour of a compound on an complete animal, not only wouldn’t you need animal testing, you wouldn’t need a synthetic chemistry, PK, ADME, HTS or formulation group. Entire drug companies could be replaced by a single person with a computer.

But it aint gonna happen any time soon.

As others have mentioned, there are several programs for calculating simple physical paramters such as Log P (partitioning between a polar and non-polar solvent), A very fundamental, well-understood chemicophysical phenomenon. In general, the calculated and empirically-determined values agree, but there are a significant number of outliers. If something this simple cannot generate bullet-proof numbers, why would anyone expect modeling of a complete organism (such as a mouse or human) would work?

I’ve always been worried that someday some animal rights activist will release a lab rat infected with something nasty. and then we will all be up “Shucks” Creek. You know which creek.

Not just drugs, but just about anything remotely medical in it’s use may require animal testing. The FDA monitors a LOT of things, not just drugs. Everything frmo band-aids and tongue depressors to pacemakers and a total hip prosthesis are monitored by the FDA. That’s not to say that every new band-aid style requires animal testing, but it may if a significant design change (like a new material, or the addition of an antibiotic) has taken place.

Anything that has to go inside someone will need animal testing, and for good reason. If I want to make a new prosthesis out of a new ceramic that, in theory, will be super-strong and cause little to no biological reaction, I’m going to want to test that theory. If I test it on a human, it may kill him. Granted, no one likes the idea of having to kill a monkey or chimp, but 99% of people agree that it’s better than killing a person (not that the chimp has to die, but that is the worst case scenario.)

So in short: No, we cannot do without animal testing. Unless you like the idea of medical progess slowing to a bare crawl.

I’m curious. Just down the street from the med school at U of Mich last spring, there were some animal rights activists dressed in gorilla suits (that had to get really hot) and holding sign that said something along these lines: “Animal testing has no beneficial uses,” and “Animal testing has not saved a single life.” Where do they get these ideas? I’m assuming they didn’t come up with them on their own. Does any major group promote these ideas?
As an aside, I used to work in a lab where we were developing lasers for use in new eye surgeries. As a result, we tested on rabbits, boring tiny holes into their eye to see how much scar tissue resulted. It was pretty sad, but I suppose for people with glaucoma, the end result will be worth it.

Zombie?

They sound nice, & sadly, today it isn’t about the truth, it’s all about winning.
For the “Sacred Cause” that is. :frowning:

The “dedicated activists” are probably the ones whose harrassing and sometimes violent actions against doctors, university students and lab workers have caused many schools and companies to increase security.

My BIL’s personal info was rippped off from a university computer once, and he was scared to death until he transferred (PhD in behavioral genetics- yep, a rat runner).

I think the anti-animal-tesing crazies wreck it for the reasonable folks who are against unneccessary animal cruelty, in the same way that the PETA freaks ruin it for reasonable vegans.

Are you talking about human clones? If so, I sure hope not – that would be insane. Clones would be just like any other human and would presumably have the same rights.

On the other hand, as I was reading this thread, I was inspired by Robert J. Sawyer’s book Illegal Alien, where the aliens balance their carnivorous nature with their ethical considerations by growing meat directly out of machines instead of cutting it from animals, and I started wondering about what would happen if we had the ability to grow animals without brains. Presumably this would eliminate any suffering during the tests … is there any reason this would not be a good way to do testing that would otherwise be cruel?

I mean, obviously you can’t test for a substance’s actual effect on the brain this way … but surely you could see if it causes irritation or tumors or whatever, right?

Is there any reason that a lack of a brain in an otherwise normal animal would create a problem extrapolating the results of tests to humans?