And that’s the measuring stick you choose to use.
You’re an idiot.
ETA: Fuck, of course you are. Why am I wasting time engaging with you. I forgot to not feed the trolls here. That’s my bad, honestly.
I think that Trumpists aren’t any better than al Qaeda. 9/11 and 1/6 were the two knockout blows to America and they bothe were carried out by hate filled religious terrorists.
No, it’s still stupidity and racism, since voting for a racist idiot and their own persecution was their reaction to “inflation”. Which was doing better under Biden.
There’s only three reasons anyone voted for Trump. Stupidity, evil and irrationality. And every single one will never deserve anything but hatred and contempt.
I can only suppose that you have little experience with moderate and left wing Christian churches, if you believe they ‘don’t mind it too much’. They vehemently oppose it. But they are not political bodies. They don’t have political power. The media doesn’t bother with them.
Denominations do not have any influence at all over other denominations. I can’t quite imagine what you believe, say, Quakers, could do to ‘exert their will’ over racist denominations. Radical right wing churches are much more focused on politics than any of the others. Indeed they are often political groups with a bare veneer of religion. This is why they are so powerful.
You are exaggerating small effects. I agree with Kimstu that confounding factors could be involved; unfortunately I haven’t been able to locate a serious paper by a political scientist.[1] In the meantime, let’s look at the crosstabs from the Roper poll:
| Demographic | Group | Harris | Trump |
|---|---|---|---|
| <$50,000 | 27 | 48 | 50 |
| $50,000-$99,999 | 32 | 46 | 52 |
| $100,000 & over | 41 | 51 | 47 |
Taking the sex data, Roper’s (weighted) sample gave Trump winning the popular by 50-48. That’s identical to the <$50,000 group. Harris underperformed the 50, 000-100,000 group and overperformed among the $100,000+ group. You are making mountains out of very slim margins.
There was a mild nationwide shift towards Trump since 2020 and the <$50,000 group was in line with that.
[1] Here’s the closest thing I could find to a serious analysis. It was written on Nov 13th, so yes I’m disappointed that I can’t find something more recent.
Bullet points from the top of the article:
Also:
When one considers all that has transpired since 2016, this stasis is remarkable if not downright peculiar.
Yes and you can impute all sorts of things to the fact that Trump was not soundly rejected.
" Why have conservatives left this message board? "
They have bribes waiting for them in Saudi Arabia…?
It’s just a shift historically from a group that was reliably Democratic (or on the high end reliably Republican.)
1980 is the first year of the Roper poll
1980 Lowest (<$10K) Carter 52-42 Highest (>$50K) Reagan 66-26
1984 Lowest (<$12.5K) Mondale 54-45 Highest (>$50K) Reagan 69-31
1988 Lowest (<$12.5K) Dukakis 63-37 Highest (>$100K) GHWB 67-33
1992 Lowest (<$15.0K) Clinton 58-23-19 (Perot) Highest (>$100K) GHWB 48-36-16 (Perot)
1996 Lowest (<$15.0) Clinton 60-29-11 (Perot) Highest (>$100K) Dole 55-39-6
2000 Lowest (<$15.0) Gore 58-38 Highest (>$100K) GWB 55-43
2004 Lowest (<$15.0) Kerry 63-36 Highest (>$100K) GWB 58-41
2008 Lowest (<$15.0) Obama 73-25 Highest Tied 49-49
2012 Lowest (<$50.0) Obama 60-38 Highest Romney 54-44
2016 Lowest (<$50.0) Hillary 53-41 Highest Tied 47-47
2020 Lowest (<$50.0) Biden 55-44 Highest Trump 54-42
2024 Lowest (<$50.0) Trump 50-48 Highest Harris 51-47
So Harris’ performance is 11 points worse than the next lowest, Mondale, in the lowest income bracket. I think that’s a fairly significant underperform. The high end is less significant, 4 points above a couple of ties. But if you count both it amounts to a 15 point swing on a 100 point scale. I think that is significant.
As I’ve said before, we’ve even seen that phenomenon on our own board. As far as debates touching on religion are concerned the “religious position” is the far right one and religious people of other persuasions are treated as if they don’t exist when they say they disagree. We saw that repeatedly during the debate over same sex marriage; “religion” and “right wing homophobia” were treated as synonyms, and anyone who talked about how their religion disagreed with that weren’t even shouted down; they were just talked over like they never posted.
By whom?
(Not being confrontational, I’m legitimately curious.)
Pretty much everyone.
Nice analysis Jay-Z. 5-7 point swings from the past 2 elections, 10-25 point swings from the 4 before that. That looks significant. Gazing at your dataset, I’d say the big shift occurred in 2016, but 2024 wasn’t trivial.
Ah, okay, in that case you’re imitating Trump’s “people are saying” rhetoric.
No, I’m relating my personal recollection. You on the other hand are demanding I precisely recall who said what during a debate that happened years ago, which is unrealistic in the extreme.
I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that there was more than just your personal opinion on this. I know you speak with sincerity but you also speak with hyoerbole bordering on paranoid pessimism. So “trust me on this” isn’t sufficient.
Let’s also point out that there are a fairly decent number of people on this board who follow a religion, so your insistence that “everyone” assumes that all religious people are on the far right is literally impossible.
You are ignoring what I said in order to bash me. My entire point was that such people are being ignored.
I think they left because they get embarrassed at having to defend the shitty society they have built. As soon as they have a minor victory, like an uptick in the economy, they’ll crawl out and start crowing. Then, when things collapse again, they scurry away. A bunch of them were crawling around right after Trump won and they’ve fucked back off once he immediately drove the nation off a cliff.
My experience is that of Der_Trihs. The defenders of their own brands of religion, on this board, are few and faint compared to the many loud anti-religionists, who rarely lay down their broad brushes. Rather like the casual misogyny that was previously condoned here, those who don’t notice the sneering contempt for all faiths, and the reduction of all Christianity to white supremacist Christofascism, are blind to it because they essentially share it.
Here’s a news tidbit from today: the Episcopal Church has broken its historical ties to the US government immigration service, over the resettlement of white South Africans. They refused to help in this endeavor. The EC had for many years assisted the government with resettling immigrants in the US. They will no longer. Trump called for the church to be punished. Of course.
Cognitive dissonance for the broadbrushers. Let’s hear you all ignore it.
And my experience as a Christian who discusses my faith here at times is that not only do I not get branded as an extreme right-winger, but I have other religiius posters who chime in with a perspective from their faiths as well.
There are a couple of anti-religion bigots on this board, but that’s not the majority of it, and it’s clearly not “everyone”.
Those of us who push back are neither silent not ignored. This discussion happening right now couldn’t be happening if that was the case. It’s an absurd premise.
Yes, this happens to me too. But that’s not what der_trihs was saying. They were saying that no matter how many times that happens, the broadbrushers act as if it didn’t. And it’s not just a couple. They are many, loud, and obliviously nasty. I will usually pipe up if I read something particularly egregious, as Zoobi’s post upthread. I generally regret it.
To relate it to the OP, since more conservatives are practicing Christians, perhaps one motive is that they got tired of that particular thing.
Not just a couple, they said that it’s:
I don’t. Fuck those bigots. As long as I’m here, and there are others like me, I’m going to keep pointing out their ignorance.
For those who insist that people with religion are all on the right wing, and anyone else meekly sits there and agrees with them by being silent, let me ask them… Which atheist Democratic president was your favorite?