The problem is that the original A and B doesn’t exactly match up to your analogous A and B.
The first A and B, were examples of sets of people attempting to reach an end (conversion - something that has occurred in the past to other people) and destruction of the US (something that by logical thinking alone we know could occur with enough fire power).
In your A and B, one represented an attempt at an end that logical thinking tells might be possible (eradication of a virus is not unheard of) and the other, that of an attempt at an end that no conclusive evidence nor logical thinking has ever even come close to proving is possible.
Now I’ve even forgotten what the hell we were talking about.
In conclusion … AIDS is bad and the Loch Ness Monster is psychic.
I guess my analogy was kind of stretching things a bit. But like Dravin said I was trying to bait a witness into answering. And this is the pit after all. I suppose the point I was really trying to make was looking at the Al-Queda hopefully shows where unquestioning belief can lead.
My job is to show you, by the way I live and behave towards you, what Jesus has done in my life, and to be honest towards you that He had a major hand in it. If the results turn you on towards Him, wonderful!; if not, I have no business buttonholing you and warning you to Repent of the Wrath to Come ™.
Freyr, I grok what will work, and I’ll let you know when it happens; until then, what you need from me is to cover your back when you’re menaced by a Drive-By Witnesser who has a problem with your sexuality or your sincerely held belief system. And that you’ve got.
Wouldn’t work. It would just let them know who hasn’t been saved yet, so they would know they needed to concentrate there even more. Wouldn’t that be fun.**
I disagree. If the evangelicals are truly serious about spreading The Word, why are they wasting time and money talking to people who already know about Christianity? Seriously, do you think there’s anyone in North America over the age of 10 who hasn’t heard Christianity’s basic message?
If they’re serious about converting people, let them go places where Christianity isn’t already dominant in the culture.
**Polycarp wrote:
Freyr, I grok what will work, and I’ll let you know when it happens; until then, what you need from me is to cover your back when you’re menaced by a Drive-By Witnesser who has a problem with your sexuality or your sincerely held belief system. And that you’ve got.**
Got it! Let me know your address so I can direct those bozos to you!
Sorry, having grown up in an evagelical church and gone to a private college ran by that denomination, they do not think that way. You are talking about people that send missionaries to places here in the USA, like Kentucky and West Virginia. They are not just interested in spreading the Word, they are intent on converting everyone. If they just take no for an answer, they are not saving you. So they have to keep trying. And they will.
If someone can file a lawsuit against the fast food industry, then eventually someone will file a suite against those who push religion on those who have clearly expressed that they are not interested.
What gets my admiration and attention is not the Scriptures that someone quotes or the person who knocks at my door. It is the person who “glows” with emotional intelligence and kindness. Then I ask ** her or him {/b] what has brought about this peacefulness.
I think that fundies are taught that anyone who tries to convince them that they are barking up the wrong tree – must surely be the devil. “That’s just the devil talking!”
What they don’t realize is that they are often as brainwashed as any other cult. If their actions don’t match their words, that is a giveaway.
I’d consider listening, if they could cut loose with the fire the way Sam Kinison did in his pre-comedy days. I won’t be moved, but at least I’ll be entertained.
Ugh. These people are the WORST. But just for funzies, when they come knocking on MY door,I usually tell them I’m in the middle of a ritual slaying of fatted calves and ask them politely to come back later.
Polycarp, that’s why you are one of the only people I’ve ever encountered who is truly Christian and deserving my respect. You are actually honest about your faith, which seems to be based more upon Christ the Redeemer and Christ, Champion of the Downtrodden than Christ the guy who’ll send you to hell if you look at him cross-eyed.
My way of dealing with Witlessing varies with my mood. I’ve firmly shut the door in old ladies’ faces, and I’ve debated a Hare Krishna to the point where she looked uncomfortable and excused herself for a lunch break. I’ve foamed at the mouth and calmly told people I wasn’t interested.
I’m thinking of just lying to door-to-door soul solicitors and saying, “Yes, I have been saved,” but somehow I don’t think this will shut them up.
What the majority of them don’t understand is that my relationship with the Deity of my Choice™ is a personal one, and none of their business, no matter how they interpret the Bible. I knew a Mormon once who refused to witness, saying that “There’s nothing I can do that God can’t–if He can’t convert you, then neither can I.”
**Polycarp - ** I have a hearty “Hear, Hear” for you. I too, especially recently, try to live my life as a Christian through example, rather than bible thumping. I now what I believe, am honest about it and try to be an example of it. I am often surprised the number of people who actually ask me about it, opening to door to an open conversation about faith, which I find so much more satisfying than trying to drive my faith down someone’s throat.
You make it sound like an Amway or other MLM type sales pitch.
On a more serious note, was the term ‘Witnessing’ as used in the thread title meant to imply ‘Jehovah Witnesses’, or just plain ol’ vanilla witnessing?
They are not just interested in spreading the Word, they are intent on converting everyone. If they just take no for an answer, they are not saving you. So they have to keep trying. And they will.**
At this point, they’ve certainly broken social rules, I’m not sure the law, however. Any lawyer want to chime in here?
Actually, the the Witnesses have won several victories in courts not just of the U.S., but also Canada, Greece, Japan, whatever they call Russia nowadays, and I’m sure others.
Murdock v. Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, U.S. Supreme Court (1943)
Kokkinakis v. Greece, European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) (1993).
Manoussakis and Others v. Greece, ECHR (1996).
West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, U.S. Supreme Court (1943)
Georgiadis v. Greece, ECHR (1997)
St-Laurent v. Soucy, Supreme Court of Canada (1997)
Hoffmann v. Austria, ECHR (1993)
Aimé Boucher v. His Majesty The King,Supreme Court of Canada 1950
Laurier Saumur v. The City of Quebec. Canadian Supreme Court 1953
University of Cincinnati Law Review
Hope that helps.
Also, check JW’s web site. Don’t worry, no pop ups.
Ah… I thought you meant JW’s since you capitalized in the salutation, too. You would be surprised what a web search will pull up…
Anyways…, I don’t have much of a problem with anyone “witnessing” to me, because I am relatively well versed in the Bible, have an amazing gift for gab, and most people just get that “how can I leave and still save face?” look while discussing deep things like that. Some, though, are rude and they resort to arguing. So, I tend to try and make them rue the moment they chose to attack me.
You want to discuss your faith? Fine.
You think I’m wrong and you’re right? Fine.
You try to make others look stupid or feel small? I’ll usually call you on it.
You get vehemently self righteous? I may try to hurt your feelings. Or leave you in mid sentence. Depends on mood.
