I was wondering the same thing. Just because a test uses dollars instead of wampum doesn’t mean I’m at a disadvantage taking it.
I know a person who has a masters degree and is a guidance counselor in a middle school who believes that it is possible to drive from Pittsburgh, PA to London, England because Google Maps said you can.
You can still have a whole lot of teh dumb.
Your average poor white person from the Mon Valley is not going to know what a demitasse cup is either. So long as it is not necessary to know what the thing is to answer the question correctly, I don’t see a problem. Hell, nobody in here can picture zorks or wonks or whatever the hell made up words they use in those ‘all zorks are wonks and all wonks are snuppets’ type questions either!
Um, doesn’t Google Maps tell you to swim across the Atlantic Ocean? Did this person actually read the instructions? I’m just curious about the conversation that must have ensued; it’s not really that important.
Is this some kind of joke? I can count three private college prep schools within walking distance of my house, and that doesn’t include Catholic schools or boarding schools.
My understanding (and I read this here, many years ago–no cite) is that the way they look for cultural bias on these tests is to analyze the data afterwards, and they can do a pretty sophisticated job looking at the results–if on a given question any sub-group (including anglos) did considerably better or worse than how that subgroup did on the test as a whole, they toss the question. It’s not a matter of sitting down and guessing what might be biased, it’s a question of looking at the results to see if any unintentional bias arose. They also toss questions when there is a low correlation between a question and overall performance–i.e., if people who tend to do well on the test are no more likely to get a given question right than people who did poorly overall on the test. Even if you can’t figure out why, it means it’s a bad question and you toss it.
Provided all this is being done on the test in question–and this stuff is absolutly standard in the field–it’s hard to see how you can be claiming there is still a racial bias. If it’s not being done because they are using a very cheap, amaturish test, then there is probably room to complain.
I can’t remember ever taking a test that contained cultural information. I would likely fail anyway because I don’t watch a lot of TV or keep up on much Pop Culture.
Facts are facts though, how are facts biased towards minorities? I can understand English being hard for minorities that are legally here from another country, but if the requirements are that you need to pass the English section, and the English section is a significant part of the job (Such as in teaching), I don’t think it is unreasonable that if you can’t pass it, you don’t get the job. Biased or not.
Minority or not, if you lived here all your life, and you have a teaching job, it is my opinion that you should be able to pass the English portion of the test.
What other possible “cultural bias” could even exist on such a test?
MsRobyn, I do not know where you are, but if you google “post baccalaureate teaching certification Pennsylvania” there are a lot of options.. When I went back for my certification, virtually every University in my area had some type of program. Depending on what you are looking to teach the classes can run a couple years or one. Some schools even have ways to help you work in the classroom as you go.
I can’t speak to cultural bias in standardized testing, but I have seen questions in college-level math and physics texts that pre-suppose a knowledge of scoring and rules of play for various sports including baseball and basketball, that I just didn’t have.
Odd, I have had those too, but they always explain enough for me to answer it without any knowledge of scoring or rules. (I.E they tell you enough to know)
I can’t answer to this test, but I do have a very simple example (two, actually) of “cultural bias” on a standardized test.
The test is one for verbal development, taken by toddlers up to age 4, I think. There’s a book of pictures, and the child is asked to identify the picture, OR the tester asks “where’s the _____” and the child has to point to it. Both actions are scored independently, because they demonstrate different categories of learning. We got through most of this just fine: “What’s this?” “Apple” “What’s that?” “Shirt.” “Where’s the doggy? Point to the baby. Which one is the cup?” Fine, until, “Where’s the cookie?”
The picture was something like this, although it didn’t move. Problem is, in our house, we don’t eat cookies like that. This animal cracker or these graham crackers are “cookies” here.
Next example, later in the test: the child is asked to perform specific examples of care techniques to a doll with some props - a crib, a blanket, a cup and a spoon. “The baby is sleepy, can you put her in her bed? Now she’s cold, put her blanket on her. Nap time is over, can you bring her to the table? Can you give her some ice cream?”
Uh…we don’t give our toddler ice cream very often. Like maybe twice ever, and that was on a cone, not in a cup. She sat there looking very confused until I asked the tester if we could prompt her with the word “yogurt” instead. As soon as she heard that, she perked up, picked up the spoon and “fed” the baby.
So these are just two simple examples of cultural bias in testing where you wouldn’t expect it. The test, which was supposed to test for her ability to follow directions and understand conversational English, was instead stymied over very specific vocabulary words which her culture (granola crunching hippie mama) had not exposed her to. It wasn’t testing her language as designed, it was testing her vocabulary - two very different skills.
Another example of cultural bias occurred some years ago on, I believe, the SATs.
The passage in question had students identify what a regatta was.
How many non-upper class students are going to know what a regatta is? I asked some of the college students in the classes I TA’ed. Maybe 1 out of 20 knew what a regatta was. It’s a question geared to upper-class, mainly white, students, and it’s not a fair question, IMO.
I’ll try to find a cite for this later–gotta head to work.
But if you already have that information going in, then you have a clear advantage.
i had a Scandinavian calculus TA in college who had to work out a problem for the class involving baseball. Since he didn’t know anything about baseball, we had to spend a good half hour explaining the rules, and I still don’t think he got it. I felt bad for him.
But I agree I don’t see how a test can be culturally biased against a person who was born and raised in this culture, even if they also belong to a subculture.
No. It is a reference to elementary schools in impoverished neighborhoods, which is where the majority of discussions on the heal-all nature of vouchers generally occurs.
Yeah, there are plenty of for profit college prep high schools, although I do not recall any that would accept the pittance offered by most voucher plans–or that charge only as much as are currently being spent, per pupil, by large suburban school districts.
I know that this point has been made above, and more clearly, but to just spell it out here: A lawyer is filing a lawsuit against the State Department of Education on behalf of three teachers who have failed an exam. The State’s response?
I don’t see anyone saying that standards will be relaxed. Quite the contrary. And yet, instead of pitting the lawyer as an instance of recreational outrage, you blame the educational system and insult anyone who lives in Massachusetts.
You know, whenever someone starts lumping all Texans together because of the latest fucked up State legislation instead of pitting the politicians that implemented that legislation, I jump in to their defense. It’s just too damn easy to single out a group for your disgust rather than being more precise. It’s obvious that Affirmative Action is a bug up your ass, so why let the facts of the case change your opinion in any way?
You, sir, have the distinct honor of being the first person that I have ever called a fuckwit.
You do not have to attend a regatta to know what one is, nor do you have to know anyone who’s been to a regatta or have ever discussed a regatta while lying around your croquet lawn sipping tea having just returned from a shopping spree at Barney’s. I’ve never been to a quinceanara but I know what one is. Also, I would be surprised if the SAT question to which you are referring is something like “What do you do at a regatta?”. I would assume there is some reference to boating or a lake or what have you to help the test taker use some deductive reasoning to answer the question. And if you do not know what a regatta is, perhaps the question is more difficult but not impossible, I’m sure.
You keep saying that but you’ve offered no cites. Can you show me how math problems were “biased against people of color?” Not against social class, but specifically against people of color?
(Hrrrmmmm… I should probably keep my yap shut, buuuuttt…)
Ma. teacher here. (“Assachusetts”? The whole state ain’t bad, just its government.)
The Ma teacher test is considered one of the hardest in the nation. It is generally accepted that, once you’re a teacher here, you can get certified in any other state you should happen to move to. Conversely, getting certified here (having been certified in another state) is ridiculously difficult.
The test is two-fold (at a minimum). There is a “Communication” section, which all teachers must pass, and (at least one) subject portion. A teacher only needs to pass one subject (in addition to the communication) to begin the certification process. In many cases, that’s all they’ll need. In my case (HS level), many teachers need to pass multiple subject tests in order to be highly qualified in all of the areas that they teach.
The Communications section is generally considered the hardest for most people. The test itself is somewhat bizarre. I can’t say I found it tough, but I remember thinking that a whole lotta people would. At one point, the test asked for me to define some words. I’ve never heard of a test (other than vocab back in HS) asking for definitions, and even then, it was from a select list.
The subject tests can get somewhat esoteric. I thought the Chemistry test was pretty straight forward. I’ve been told that Biology and Earth Science are ok as well. The Physics test is a beast, tho. My friend (who has a BS and MS in Physics) took it a couple of times before he passed. I am thinking about taking it, but, with only an MS in Physical Oceanography, I don’t think I could pass it without some pretty major studying.
If you want to read what the test are like from the Mass Dept. of Ed, here ya go. They don’t tell you how many people pass. IIRC, it’s something like half, on any given test attempt.
I have no problems with someone looking at the tests to see if there is a cultural bias. As many others here have noted, there are plenty of examples where test questions ask for knowledge that is unreasonable for most people to know (and generally tangential to the thought process they are trying to test). I still don’t think that these tests are well and truly worth it, tho. I’ve seen plenty of people pass them who can’t teach a damn. IOW, the test is not a good indicator of teaching ability. I don’t think there is a way on Earth that you can evaluate how well someone is able to communicate ideas by giving them an “objective” test. I might be a fantastic teacher here, but maybe I’m a horrible teacher in inner-city NY. The only way you can tell that is by sticking someone in the class room and - this is the important part - having someone who is themselves an effective teacher evaluate the performance. In theory, this happens when the candidate goes through further training.
There’s been a similar situation going on with St. Louis fire captains & batallion chiefs:
I agree. Most teacher tests are a joke because they don’t and can’t test what really counts. OTOH, the California Basic Educational Skills Tests(CBEST) for teachers is set at the 8th grade level! And when I took it 20 years ago, there were people in the room on their 5th or 6th go-around with it. Personally, I don’t want those people in my profession.
The Praxis is a lot harder, but still doesn’t prove anything. I’ve had a grand total of 1 college biology class and 1 college chemistry class, yet I passed both the Life Sciences and Physical Sciences tests with high enough scores (above 80th percentile) to be certified in those subjects in California.
You guys are missing the point. Why look for specific examples of cultural bias? The fact that minorities (by which, of course, we mean the underperforming minorities, not Jews or Asians) score lower than white people obviously means that the tests are racist.
What, you’re saying that those minorities could in fact be worse on an objective level? Racists! 