Why is there so much importance placed on the positive **belief **in Jesus as a divine being and that he died for our sins? Why won’t someone be “saved” if they are open to the idea but would just like some hard evidence first before they fully devote their life to something?
I’m asking for a very down-to-earth explanation of this without any quoting of scripture or the like. How could this make sense to someone not already influenced by Christian doctrine?
I’m not a Christian, but I know many and have been to Church many times. The obsession with positive belief has always been a logical stumbling block for me.
In my personal life, I know that my decision to convert to Christianity was the most important decision in my life. It is what transformed me from a mostly unhappy person into a happy one, from a loner to a social person, from a hater to no longer being a hater. It is my personal experience that the deep convictions that I choose are the basis and controlling factor in my life. Stances on transient issues result from those deep convictions. Individual decisions result from those stances. So the convictions that I chose are the most important thing to me.
As for the question of whether belief causes people to be saved, I do not tell anyone else whether they or saved or not. I view that as a matter that is between each individual and God, and only desire that everyone have the freedom to make decisions about his or her own religion.
I am not a Christian either, but I am pretty sure that few if any Christians think you will be saved just because you believe “in Jesus as a divine being and that he died for our sins” etc. At a minimum you also have to sincerely repent your sins, and ask for divine forgiveness (and, depending on the version of Christianity in question, probably other stuff too). Of course, you can’t sincerely ask God an/or Jesus to forgive you unless you believe in God and/or Jesus, so belief is a logically necessary precondition of salvation, but it certainly is not sufficient.
As for the notion that you ought to expect to be saved by Jesus just for being open to the possibility that he might be the divine savior, frankly that just boggles my mind.
Of course you are not a Christan unless you believe in the tenets of Christianity. That is not hard to understand is it? However, contrary to what you seem to think, just being a Christian is not nearly enough (according to most Christians) to get you saved.
James 2:19 says “Even the demons believe - and shudder.” So belief is either not necessary, or not sufficient, for salvation.
Most modern Christians would say the latter - belief is not sufficient in itself but must be accompanied by faith. Some, and I include myself, believe that Jesus’ sacrifice is the only prerequisite for salvation and that belief is unnecessary for salvation. Good, certainly, but not required.
Because there is no evidence. Christianity (and religion in general) has to emphasize faith and denigrate evidence & logic because faith is all it has. And because what evidence there is, is against it.
It typically doesn’t, which is why Christians make a point of raising their children with that doctrine while they are too young to think for themselves.
“As for the notion that you ought to expect to be saved by Jesus just for being open to the possibility that he might be the divine savior, frankly that just boggles my mind.”
Well that’s just it. Other sins aside, many churches teach that he saved us from original sin, but we will only be saved if we *believe *that he did. Can you think of any real world scenario where such a fundamental truth is only valid if there is a belief towards it? Let’s say I saved a hundred cats from drowning in a river. Does it matter whether or not any of them actually believed I did it??
“As for the notion that you ought to expect to be saved by Jesus just for being open to the possibility that he might be the divine savior, frankly that just boggles my mind.”
Well that’s just it. Other sins aside, many churches teach that he saved us from original sin, but we will only be saved if we believe that he did. Can you think of any real world scenario where such a fundamental truth is only valid if there is a belief towards it? Let’s say I saved a hundred cats from drowning in a river. Does it matter whether or not any of them actually believed I did it??
Well that’s just it. Other sins aside, many churches teach that he saved us from original sin, but we will only be saved if we believe that he did. Can you think of any real world scenario where such a fundamental truth is only valid if there is a belief towards it? Let’s say I saved a hundred cats from drowning in a river. Does it matter whether or not any of them actually believed I did it??
BTW… I apologize for the multiple replies. Brand new to Straight Dope message boards!
Jesus was born and raised as a Jew and gave little indication that he wanted to start a new religion separate from Judaism. His main beef with the leadership, specifically the Pharisees, was that they were too focused on the legalism of religion and not focused enough on providing for the real physical and practical needs of those around them. Jesus’ message in his parables seems to be that those who act neighborly and with compassion, even if it makes them unclean or impure, are acting in a way that pleases God. When a man asked Jesus what the greatest commandment was Jesus commented that all of the commandments in the old testament stem from just 2: Love God with all of your Heart, Soul, and Mind and Love your neighbor as yourself.
When Paul took the message of Jesus out to the synagogues he preached the message that the law of the Old Testament was no longer necessary, though it was still practical from the standpoint of providing guidance and direction. Paul taught that it was through Grace that we were justified before God and that we honored that grace by good works. This did not sit will with most of Jewish priests and in short order Christianity was a separate religion from Judaism. The other problem with Paul’s message of openness is that many people took liberties far beyond what Paul expected (this is especially visible in Corinthians). When Paul backpedaled and tried to establish boundaries we see some of the misogynistic and other ultra conservative attitudes that Fundamentalists love to trot out.
I think this is where the key component of “belief” comes into Christianity. Judaism taught that people needed to perform certain rituals and tasks. They needed to be circumcised, they can’t eat meat from unclean animals, they can’t work on the Sabbath, they must celebrate Passover, etc… Christianity on the other hand says that those rituals are unnecessary, all that a person needs is belief. Over time the meaning of that word has taken on a gravity all its own but I think that’s more our own interpretation based on the times. People love to think in terms of us versus them. While Fundamentalists believe that an unquestioning Belief is necessary for salvation, many more liberal Christian churches believe that good works is enough and salvation is open to all.
Basically, the idea is we are spiritually dead outside of God. Thus, when we die, either we go into the Netherworld (Sheol/Hades) bound in our sins or into a dormant state until Christ’s return to resurrect the dead & hold the Last Judgment. God revealed Himself to us gradually over millenia through Torah & the Prophets, basically showing us that try as we might, we can’t be totally free of sin & perfectly good, so He sent the fullest Revelation of Himself as Jesus to live that perfect life, die in atonement for our sins, rise immortal & thus defeat death, and bestow the Holy Spirit upon all who entrust themselves to Him. Belief is the first step to entrusting ourselves to Christ & receiving His Holy Spirit, which is what enables us to share in God’s Eternal Life, join Jesus in His Risen state, and escape death/the Netherworld.
Why is taking our medicine so important in getting better? Belief/faith is akin to taking the medicine.
Btw, some- even many of us who hold the above scenario allow that God may well bestow His Eternal Life to those who die outside of Christian faith, perhaps by counting their virtuous deeds & religious devotion as a sign of unconscious faith in Christ, perhaps through a form of Afterlife Evangelism, but isn’t it better to get the matter settled now instead of relying upon unpromised possibilities?
In part because Christianity has been wise enough not to demand specific acts to define membership. You don’t have to get cut anywhere; you don’t have to refuse to eat anything; you don’t have to wear a symbol or recite a pledge or whatnot.
In some eras, there were prohibitions on depictive art. Many Christians refuse to say certain words. But these aren’t universal, and they don’t define Christianity.
Christianity is defined remarkably widely. By and large, anyone who says he is a Christian…is a Christian. Belief – a wholly subjective criterion – is all that is required.
(In many cases, not even that! There are many Christians who hold significant private doubts.)
Most Christians? I’d question that. Some Christians, certainly, have the opinion that all non-Christians, and the large majority of Christians, will be damned. Perhaps they’re right – who knows? My gut feeling, is that that scenario is abhorrent. As a friend of mine said: "I’d want nothing to do with a God who dealt with the human race in that way. I wouldn’t want to spend eternity with him. I’d say to him, ‘do to me whatever you like, you arsehole’ ".
Because without it, there’s nothing left. Most of what they have to sell is belief; anything else is just tagged on, like getting Norton Anti-virus and a Yahoo.com toolbar for your browser when you buy a new PC.
Faith is belief without evidence. I believe in electricity…because I’ve seen it in action, made up circuits in school labs, recharged batteries and changed light bulbs.
The faithful (with, of course, one rather dreary exception) have never actually met God.
I usually go with faith = belief with no proof/evidence. And the only evidence in Christianity is the New Testament (which has, over the years, been highly edited and translated and mistranslated) and one writing by the historian Josephus (37 CE - 100 CE) where he mentioned that during the rule of Pilate, one Jesus was crucified. That’s all the evidence.
So, that’s why, IMHO, faith is so important to Christianity (to be fair, it is in all religions) because that’s all there is.
Beats the hell out of me. Jesus said that belief in him would give you eternal life. He also said that belief in him would allow you to perform any miracle you wanted — no restrictions. He gave as an example something completely stupid and useless, namely casting a mountain into the sea. And he gave as a demonstration something petty and spiteful, killing a fig tree for not having fruit, even though it was the wrong season for fruit. On other occasions, he said belief would allow you to drink poison, be immune to venomous snakes, and heal the sick.
All of those promises, except eternal life, can be tested. The medical term for people who sincerely believe, and then test the unsolicited promise about drinking poison or handling snakes, is “corpse.” The legal term for parents who sincerely believe, and therefore pray for their sick children rather than take them to the doctor, is “criminally negligent.” And I have yet to meet a Christian who is willing to demonstrate even a tiny miracle for me, let alone cast a mountain into the sea.
In other words, almost every time Jesus’s claims about the power of belief are tested, they fail. Of course some people get well without a doctor, but that happens at the same rate for non-Christians. And when practically every Christian in Western Europe prayed for the Black Plague to spare them in the 14th century, long before faith was diluted by commie liberal professors with their evolution and geology, they still died at the same rate as Jews, Muslims, and pagans.
So it’s a mystery to me why Christianity emphasizes belief, when it clearly does not work. And it’s a mystery to me why Christians believe they’ll get eternal life, when they can see that they don’t get anything else Jesus promised.
A POSITIVE belief in an invisible father who sent a savior to Earth and be damn near beaten to death before being nailed to wood and die in a the sun so he can “save” people can never, ever, ever be considered a positive situation. The savior’s “dad” could’ve wiped the original sin he gave to people with a thought or a wave of the hand, if he’s that powerful or merciful.
I think “belief” isn’t really the word you’re looking for in your question. It’s: Faith: strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof. (Bolding mine.)
“Faith” is a pretty crucial thing to christianity. I mean, a person can easily believe all the doctrine and be nominally indifferent to it. Faith is more like a sort of inner knowledge that what one believes is good and right and true.
Consider your faithful beagle. She trusts you and believes in you, but more importantly, she will act on her faith and strive to protect and aid you, even at risk to herself. Without thinking. Faith is a two-way street, which makes it sought-after and valuable. I mean, without faith, how will you muster the stones to go kill muslims?
When I was about 11, I went on a christian retreat where the goal was to make us better christians. It was pretty intense, there was a euphoric feeling in the air that I only otherwise experienced on the good unicorn, donald duck and microdot acid years later. One of the exercises involved faith strengthening through trust. There was falling in the front room (you stand stiff as a board and let yourself fall, trusting the people in the circle to catch you), but I missed out on that. Instead, a guy put a blindfold on me, took me onto the beach and lead me in a full run (ISTR returning the “favor” for him). Once you instill faith in believers (which I think may be possible for some but probably not all), you can lead them by the nose-ring.