Yep, and having read all your closely reasoned and emotion-free postings on the election in the past few days, and seeing that you’ve posted almost 1700 times this year, I’d dare to say that there are a few Republicans who are also geeks who spend too much time on the Internet daily.
I was wondering about this, too, until I heard a story on the local news this week. It seems that the answer comes down to money.
Apparently there is a new voting machine that works with a computer screen, kind of like an ATM. The problem is that this technology is very expensive, and government officials say they have to choose between buying the machines or spending that money on things like more police officers or improved roads.
Sorry I don’t have any more info, but I saw the story about two days ago and I can’t find it on the station’s website. I’ll post a link later if I find one.
Well, let’s see, the Democrats want to hand-count what has already been counted twice, in an attempt to come up with more votes for Gore–by hook or by crook. Then, if that works, the Republicans will want to hand-count some Republican counties to shake out more votes…then the Dems will want more…then the Reps will want more…and then the losers aren’t gonna be satisfied anyway, so they’ll sue.
Meanwhile, in Washington, Acting-President J. Dennis Hastert (R-IL) celebrated the beginning of his second year in office with a party at the White House…
One of the very first inventions of Thomas Alva Edison was an automatic voting machine. The ballot box stuffing politicians of his era immediately reviled this otherwise important technological advance and promptly assured that this marvel was stillborn.
After that episode Edison resolved to never again invent anything that did not already have a market for it.
Just an amusing little anecdote as we enter the age of internet voting.
I suggest that it doesn’t matter how the votes turn up- if there are votes out there for either candidate that have NOT been accurately counted, they should be.
If YOU were running for a public office and several hundred of several million votes separated you and the other candidate, and several recounts turned up different results, wouldn’t YOU want a hand count? You can bet I would.
Truth be told, if it were Gore in the position of leading by several hundred votes and Bush wanted a hand count, I would not have a problem with that at all. I want the person in office who was voted in by the people of the Unites States. (well, the electoral college) Bush’s attempts to “bring a close” to the recount only shows his insecurity over the results. What’s his hurry? The electoral college doesn’t vote until December 18, there are still overseas ballots to be counted, and the inauguration isn’t until Jan. Isn’t it worth a week or two to ensure the correct person is in the office of President of the United States?
Zette
In poker terms, Bush is trying to “buy the pot”. When you’ve got a good-but-not-great hand (say, two pair), you bet big early on to try to scare everybody else into folding.
He doesn’t realize that Gore isn’t going to fold. This just supports my contention that Bush would be a lousy poker player. 
As I’ve said in other threads, I think the only fair solution is to split Florida’s votes.
Dr. J
What’s funny is that Bush signed a law providing for hand counts in Texas on the grounds that they’re more accurate than machines!
The question shouldn’t be “why is Bush an idiot”, it should be “why did 48% of the country vote for him”!
Finagle:
I plead no-contest to the latter assertion. But as to the former, maybe you should read them more carefully. You still seem to be on the wrong side of this.
Anybody watch “Meet The Press” this morning? It seems that the hand-count counties very carefully selected by Gore all feature Democratic boards of canvassars, who outnumber Republicans 2-to-1. Each county gets to determine its own standards on what counts as a Gore vote in a re-count, and it seems the Democrats are out-voting the Republicans frequently on disputed ballots.
Gee, why would anybody be opposed to that? Sure sounds fair to me.
If whoever is selected by General Motors to run our country uses the word “mandate” we will know that HE is an idiot.
To paraphrase my advice to myself in another thread, “Ithappens every 112 years. We should live so long to worry about it.”
Well, originally I didn’t see the problem with a hand count as long as an objective and fair process could be established.
From the Washinton Post front page this morning:
“Confusion is Winner”
“Dozens of Disputes and seemingly seat-of-the-pants rule changes”
“confusion about how the task of manually reviewing the ballots should be done”
It seems they are abandoning the original count method (the “sunlight” method") and going to something else.
For those of you contending that this hand counting has removed enough subjectivity to be fair; for example
I think the answer is all too clear. For Bush to object to this I think is reasonable. This hand count, at least to this point, has done nothing but make the entire situation more confused and volatile, which I do not see a s a good thing.
Bush is an idiot, Gore is an idiot. I think they both stopped listening to their PR people after the votes were in and both showed just how stupid they are. Though I can understand wanting to stop the recounts that are for only democratic countys.
“Oh this one has Bush and Gore punched out but the Gore punch out looks bigger, it must be for Gore”
Though Bush should simply try to say that Gore can’t demand the recount in individual counties.
“Almost”? I don’t think there’s any “almost” about it, Jman, since that is the only logical reason for it. And the fact that he actually went ahead and did it, given that fact, is pretty jaw-dropping.
I’ve become convinced that the conservative hatred for Clinton/Clinton/Gore is so deep, and thr frustration at being unable to destroy them is so wide, that they’ve taken leave of their senses.
The lack of respect for the average American’s intelligence is staggering. Does he really think we can’t see thrrough his perfectly laughable excuses for doing this?
stoid
I read these threads mostly as a troll, but I’ve become increasingly tired of this whole thing.
I feel like I’m watching the O.J. trial. Truth really doesn’t matter… it’s who yells last and loudest.
Imagine if you will, things were reversed… a count and a recount show Gore the winner, and Bush goes into 4 highly partisan, Republican counties… Democrats would be screaming bloody murder at the injustice of it all and the refusal of Republicans to accept the “truth.” I’m always amazed at the spin of the Left and the way they just “can’t see” the Right’s point of view. Face it, folks… they both spin it… and your interpretation of who is right and who is wrong is based on your particular point of view. The question really should be “when do we stop?”
Point 1) If Gore supporters were so interested in “the will of the people” and the “truth”, then they should have asked for hand recounts in ALL counties, and not just the 4 that they feel will give their guy the edge. Certainly, this would give their cry of “fairness” and “justice” and “the will of the people” more credibility.
Point 2) Everyone knew the rules going in… now we have subjective decisions based on arguments of the local Florida Canvassing Committees, deciding what is, and what isn’t a valid vote. Doesn’t this bother anyone? Especially when, if there is a dispute on a particular ballot, they take a vote. And since the county is run by democrats, it’s going to come out on the side of their candidate. Is that fair? Do you feel like justice or the “will of the people” is being followed? Please. I would feel the same way if it was happening in a Republican county. It is neither candidate’s fault that people didn’t follow directions, vote correctly, or were confused. It is the voter’s responsibility to vote correctly… not Gore’s or Bush’s. The votes lost in Republican counties fall into this same bag.
Point 3) I keep hearing about these hand recounts in a Bush county… Seminole County counted only the absentee ballots by hand… not a complete recount of all votes. A big difference, but one not usually pointed out by our friends on CNN and other networks.
Point 4) Clearly, votes were missed all over the country. When does the madness end? Let’s say Gore wins Florida. Then what? Bush can ask for recounts in Wisconsin, Oregon, Iowa… and he can also ask for the absentee ballots to be open in California, (over 1 million that won’t be opened until sometime in January if at all… but would potentially give Bush the popular vote as well). As much as I can understand the frustration of the Gore camp, I think this could spiral out of control. And will Gore supporters support Bush in his determination to get the vote right for a true winner? Will you cheer for the entire state of Florida to be recounted if Gore wins it, or call for the other states to recount their votes? I doubt it. So much for “fairness” and the “truth”.
Point 5) The lawsuits. Yes, the Bush camp was the first “camp” to file a lawsuit, but the 8 citizen-filed lawsuits are all democratic lawsuits… maybe not filed by the Gore camp, but absolutely supported (if they weren’t, wouldn’t the Gore camp ask them to be withdrawn?)
Point 6) The illegal ballots. Florida has ruled this past week that the Palm Beach ballot was indeed legal. Enough said on that.
Point 7) The media. I read that it is estimated that “over 10,000 votes” were lost to Bush in the panhandle when Florida was given to Gore by his buddies in the media, in their rush to judgement. How in the world did someone come up with that number? Who the hell knows… but shouldn’t we say that those people who on the way to the polls heard that
Gore had won and decided to turn around have just as much a right to vote as those who voted for TWO candidates because they were confused? Which misinformation should stand? A confusing ballot or a bad call on the state outcome?
Point 8) Corruption. Who are we kidding here? There is no way in hell that elections are completely on the up and up. We all hope they are, but I think we all know that dead people vote all the time, illegal aliens find their way into the booth, and people vote both absentee and in person. When one side starts digging up the bodies, believe me, the other side will return in kind. Do Democrat supporters know (or care) that homeless people were given cigarettes and a free ride to the voting booth to vote for their candidates in Milwaulkee? Is it true? Does it matter? Christ, we could spend the next 50 years investigating this crap…
I can understand the frustration… but I’m getting the sense that the Gore camp will continue counting until they get the result they want… which is understandible, but hardly admirable. So what do you suppose will happen? Bush will be forced by his supporters to do the same. Neither side, no matter how it comes out, will feel that justice has been done if the other side wins.
Look folks… Gore may very well have won Florida. But that’s not how it came out. Twice. If we are willing to reject the outcome in Florida, we all better be prepared to look at any state a candidate wants. By the time this gets sorted out, these two will be running in the 2004 primaries.
This will get ugly.
Did you have a point?
Is this possible? My understanding of the process is that you are voting for the electors. So if, say, Bush wins, the Bush, i.e., Republican, electors are the ones who are chosen. Since the electors on either side are typically party hacks presumably chosen for their loyalty, it seems unlikely to have a mass dissention. The only case in which I could imagine such dissention is if news comes out between when they are chosen and when the college meets that is so damning to the winner that even the electors in his own party feel compelled to vote against him.
The only good democrat is one that has never been elected.
jshore it is possible that NONE of Florida’s electors will get to vote. This is highly unlikely but if Florida does not certify its election results by Dec 18th its electors will not be allowed to vote. This would probably only occur if a court refused to allow the ballot to be certified.
There is nothing in the 12th amendment that states that all electors must be present for the the vote to take place. In fact only a Majority of them must be present, and all of them must cast a vote.
Just a bit of constitutional trivia.
Thomas Decker I have seen a lot of stupid and uninformed statements about this election, but yours takes the cake. Are you really an idiot or is your head so far up your ass that you can’t see the keyboard properly?
Not that you’re going to listen to, Stoidela.
I’ve pointed out in detail why this hand recount is extremely biased and unfair.
You ignore that, and continue to support it.
That makes you
A) ignorant
B) extremely partisan for the Gore cause, to the point where the facts don’t matter. (Which I see as “A,” any way.)
Care to punch the ballot on that one? Think you can handle that? You’re a Democrat, after all.
And I and others have pointed out why you are wrong, and the ways in which your own bias is clouding your assessment of what is fair, and you continue to ignore what we say and oppose it.
Does that mean I’m supposed to start calling you names and being nasty to you, too?
And do have ANY idea how laughably arrogant that statement was? Let me rephrase it so you can get an idea:
“I’ve explained in detail to you what my opinion of the situation is and how I feel about it, and yet you persist in having an opinion of your own that disagrees with mine - you are therefore an ignorant person!”
Puhleeze… :rolleyes:
By the way, I’ve been debating online for 12 or 13 years (used to do it on BBSes) and I learned years ago that there is absolutely nothing less worthy of my time than trying to argue ideas, opinions or facts with people whose style of argument is to attack me personally and make nasty remarks designed to goad me. It’s ugly, unproductive, and it sure as hell doesn’t improve the value or legitimacy of any opinon or idea, so I just won’t participate. Please don’t persist in it, at least not with me, or you will find yourself arguing alone.
stoid
Anyone who does not agree with your ideas is ignorant, or only Democrats?