On what grounds is he trying to stop the hand recount? It’s like he’s saying “No…there’s no reason at all to find out what people really voted!” There’s no logical reason for not getting the count accurately tabulated. It’s almost as if he’s so scared that Gore might win that he wants to purposely have an incorrect count. If he’s so confident, the hand recound will turn up the exact same thigns as the regular recount…if he ends up losing because of the hand recount…sorry, Bush…more people voted for Gore.
I’ve avoided most of the election threads, but this one really says it all for me. The GALL of this guy to sit there saying that the “Democrats” are dragging this thing on and we need to accept that he won and move on is absolutely unbelieveable. I am praying to God, Allah, Rah and anyone else I can think of that he does not end up our president. What a presumptuous ass.
<–joining the “bush is an ass” club. Personally I live in FL, and the fact that Georgia called US backwards is rediculous. But the reason people voted wrong is because the OVERWHELMING, and I mean EXTREMELY OVERWHELMING populous of OLD FARTS here in the GREAT STATE TO RETIRE IN. You think voting is bad, try driving here. You can barely see the little old ladies head in the car, you think a ghost is driving you have to question if she can even see the road or not.
Well there is good and bad about Bush being president for people in FL.
Bad: HE’D BE THE PRES. he has no experience.
Good: FL will be well taken care of Brother Jeb Bush is our govenor
I would prefer Gore, just because I generally do the democrat thing, i dont like where republicans stand on abortion. But hey thats up to you whatever, but Dont you think they should get an ACCURATE count of who the president should be? Its because Bush will have to take his head out of his ASS, and hear the truth or something.
The reason for trying to stop the hand count is that
a) it’s far less accurate than a machine count, and presents numerous chances for tampering and subjective decisions, and
b)there is no standard procedure for how to do a hand count, so there will be no consistency in the results or the methodology.
Also, everyone knows that this whole hand-recount thing is just a fishing expedition by Gore. Even alot of Democrats are telling him to give it up now and start his plans for 2004.
It’s not a fishing expedition. The first recount showed that the initial count was off by 1500 votes. Now, with a margin of only 300+, it’s worth it to get it right. The machines will NOT mark a ballot who’s punch is only half out. There are likely quite a few ballots who have this problem…it’s extremely common with punch ballots. With the margin SO small, there’s absolutley no reason not to have a hand recount. There are people from both parties doing the counting, as well as numerous observers from each party checking to make sure the count is done right. Florida is not decided yet. It’s so close, there’s no reason to NOT get an accurate count. Bush says that he won simply because he’s scared that he really didn’t get the amount he needed.
BTW…I would NOT be surprised if the FL electors do NOT vote all for the state’s winner. I think we might have an electoral college dissention on Dec. 18…and maybe the one who wins florida after all ballots are counted will NOT be the one who is picked by the electoral college, and thus be the president. FL electors are not required to all vote for the winner of the state, and while they almost always do…this could very well be a case where the democratic electors will vote Gore, and the republican electors will vote Bush…which makes Oregon and NM even more important.
I clicked on this thread intending to postulate an answer to the question in the thread title: “Well, he’s never had to learn to think for himself, do you think that if your Daddy runs the CIA you can’t get help with your homework…?” And then I was going to go on along the lines of: not only is he stupid, he’s actually proud of his ignorance! When caught out on the fact that Slovenia and Slovakia aren’t the same place, he said he didn’t need to know - he’ll have advisers for that sort of thing.
But since the thread is actually about the recount, I’ll hush up
You must be kidding, here! Are you seriously telling me that a state that micromanages the design for a ballot, has no standardized procedure for doing a hand recount?
Let me quote Spiritus Mundi on this:
*1) A hand recount, as required to be performed by Florida law, is a sampling of some precincts within a county. If the sampling shows results that warrant braodening the scope, then the hand count can be extended ot the entire county.
A [hand] recount by law is performed in a [room] open to both public and press. Two independent observers must agree on teh vote recorded on each ballot. Representatives of both campaigns may be present during the count.
Now, can someone please tell me where the “inaccuracy” will arise from this method? How about “party bias”? It seems, rather, the method most assured of obtaining a reliable and accurate count of the valid ballots cast.
There is absolutely nothing stopping Bush from asking for recounts in any county he wishes.
The decision to have a hand recount is entirely at the discretion of teh local canvasing board.
The counties Gore has asked to be re-examined all showed significant differences in count between the two [machine] counts. It is unreasonable to accept either machine count as accurate, given that thee results were not reproducible despite supposedly identical input. Palm Beach County, for instance, showed a difference of 809 votes between the two counts: more than twice the margin currently separating the candidates.
The counties which favored **ush in Florida have not shown such discrepancies. This does not prevent Bush from asking for a recount in those counties, but it removes one compelling reason for the canvasing board to agree to the request. Bush may, of course, supply other reasons should he have them. Perhaps Bush should seek a recount of Duval County, which voted for Bush by a 60%-40% split and showed a swing of 200 votes between counts.
The position that Gore has “picked and chosen” counties where a recount will favor him presupposes that in those counties valid ballots for Gore were not counted properly. If that is the case, then a recount is not only warranted, it is ethically demanded. The freedom to vote means nothing if a valid ballot can be discounted simply because it is inconvenient to count it correctly.
The position that the Gore campaign has asked for a recount only in counties that voted heavily democratic is also misleading. The vote in Dade County split roughly 53%-47%. In Valusia County, the split was 54%-46%. Broward County and Palm Beach County did vote heavily for Gore.*[/ul]
Isn’t that the same county that had 9,888 votes for a socialist candidate that averaged about 2 votes in every other county in Florida? I heard that on CBSnews.com, but I’m too lazy to go dig up the cite.
I am a fourth-generation Democrat. Just thought I’d better say that to start with.
I want this damn thing OVER. But I want it over fairly, and accurately. If that means it’ll take a couple of weeks, then fine. THEN if Bush wins, then, well, I get to bitch for four years. But for God’s sake, count all the freaking votes first. If Gore were ahead, I’d STILL be saying, WAIT, this thing isn’t over yet. I suspect I’m not alone in that. I don’t want it over with so bad that we end up declaring the wrong winner! (I have this feeling it’ll be Bush anyway gag.)
That Bush would attempt to deny any sort of investigation into voting inaccuracies smacks of his own exact accusations that the Democrats are merely fishing for the correct results.
Because the results currently reflect his own desires, Bush feels no need to pursue things any further. It is highly unethical to avoid all due diligence in subjecting the Florida state vote to the highest degree of scrutiny possible.
There must be some sort of mandate that brings one of these candidates to the White House. Success in this election must be reality based. Recount every single precinct in every single state if needed. The tax dollars spent would be well worth it to have the assurance that this election’s results were obtained fairly and accurately.
For Gore to concede this election when there is such valid confusion over the will of the people (especially in light of the popular vote) would be idiotic. Disregarding the “overvoting” (double punched ballots) that occured in Palm Beach County, the inordinate number of Buchannan votes remain as an indicator of the ballot’s faultiness.
If ever the entire Democratic process was at stake, it is now. There must be no abrogation of procedure or method to make the most accurate determination possible of the will of the American people. Anything less would only serve the interests of tyranny.
cnn has reported today that hand counting has already happened in a county that favoured bush. interesting that he accepts one hand count and goes to court to prevent others. i say hand count all ballots that the machines in fl rejected. we have until the 17th to make sure that all viable votes are counted.
The real question is:
Why is the United States, one of the, if not the, most technologically advanced, prosperous, and respected democracies in the history of the world, relying on 40 year old technology to decide this most important contest?
It’s pathetic that we are still using punchcards and optical readers. This technology is notoriously inaccurate and inefficient. It should have been retired dozens of years ago.
For years, we’ve been sending ‘observers’ to third-world countries, to certify their elections. We always hear reports about ‘irregularities’, and scoff at those poor stupid disadvantaged people who can’t run a simple election.
Maybe we should ask Mozambique or Latvia for help with our next national election. It couldn’t hurt.
As soon as we have some elected leaders – if that ever happens, we need to push them on this. We should be able to vote with User ID’s and Passwords from anywhere. The powers that be will fight this, because they fear change. But our representatives will listen to us if we complain loudly enough and long enough.
I think voting technology reform is an issue that can gain total bi-partisan support. Let your representative know how you feel about this issue.