Can anybody disagree with this election position?

OK, I have been posting tidbits about this and that in various election-related threads here. I think it’s time to put it all together and see if anybody can really disagree with it (oh, I know somebody will).

In Florida: The law appears to provide for some hand recounts. Those recounts should be done and, if irregularities are still found, further hand recounts (including the whole damned state if necessary) should be done. This should be true no matter who the “irregularities” favor.

The Bush camp should calm down with its calls for Gore to concede and wait until every single absentee vote is counted.

The courts should quickly address the voter lawsuits as to whether or not the Palm Beach ballots were legal. It is highly likely that no matter what the result, it will be appealed. Appeals should be handled as quickly as possible.

Whatever the final appeal says (whether it comes from the Florida Supreme Court or the U.S. Supreme Court), the loser should step aside gracefully. (Barring other problems, such as a recount in other states meaning the loser of the court battle is not the loser of the election overall.)

This post-election stuff has become a sideshow. It should be decide through legal means, not through who has the best press spin. Both sides should end the campaign rhetoric and let the process work.

I can agree with that.

Only if Gore stops politicking about PBC’s disenfranchised votes, stops with the “Will of the people” BS.

And only if they can somehow get Jesse Jackson back in his cage.

Gore can ask for whatever he wants, andf Bush can object to whatever he wants. Freedom, baby, freedom. But let’s stop the politicking and rabble rousing (which seems to be the provence of the democrats right now, but they’re losing at the moment.)

Uh, Scylla, did you read my entire post?

I’m pretty sure the things you mention are covered by my statement: “Both sides should end the campaign rhetoric and let the process work.”

Gore and bush should each get a automatic weapon and then duel to the death.

That would certainly solve a lot of problems… :wink:


Only if they are both members of the NRA.

Yeah, I read it, but you through in an extra niggle about Bush, so I figured I’d lay one an Gore to keep things democratic. Plus, I think both sides need to stop Jesse Jackson. He’s an embarassment.

I say fight to the death! Let each candidate continue the campaign, but this time campaigning to the TRUE voters, the Electoral College. Let the EC members take their awesome responsibility into their own hands instead of hiding behind “the will of the people”. In the USA we don’t vote for the president, we vote for Electors whom we trust to represent our interests. Let THEM decide instead of the pusillanimous, uninterested (how many people actually vote?) and uninformed general public.

Someone has to debate the OP, and I for one will not stand for DavidB’s attempt to inject calm and reason into this inflammatory partisan issue.

I’m afraid I must disagree, David. As I explained in a Pit thread, the important thing here is not to let our democratic and legal processes work to determine who should be elected according to the will of the people and the law, but instead to determine which side’s partisans can scream most loudly and outrageously in the media. I believe, David, that you are misapprehension. The election will not be decided under Florida election law. Rather, there is a giant stadium ‘noise-o-meter’ set up in Tallahassee, and whichever side can scream louder will be given the election.


Asmodean said:

For once, Asmodean and I are in complete agreement.

Scylla said:

Bush is the one pushing to call the election over before all the votes are counted. That’s why I mentioned it specifically. If the first recount had showed Gore ahead and he had suggested that it was over, I’d have said it about him instead.

Arnold said:

Sorry. I shall forever hang my head in shame.

The problem is that selective recounts introduce statistical bias. If you want a hand recount, do the entire state. Since it was close to 50/50, the errors should swing both ways overall. But if you do it only in areas where Gore got 70% of the vote, then the errors on the ballots will tend to swing towards Gore.

Hand recounts in those areas is like saying, “Sure, let’s have an election that’s X% accurate. But in areas I think I’ll win, I want to demand that the accuracy is doubled.”

I hope you can see the bias in that.

Has Gore called for a re-count in ANY district where Bush carried the majority of votes? If he were simply interested in fairness, you’d think that he would look in those areas too.

You want to hand recount the entire state? Fine. I have no problem with the Bush campaign asking for it if the recount in these few counties pushes us towards Gore.

Of course, they would seem a little hypocritical now with their attempt to stop these hand recounts, but that’s not stopping them now.

It’s not hypocritical at all. If a selective hand re-count is biased, then don’t do it. They are hoping to get it stopped this way, but if that doesn’t work they’ll probably wait to see if it truly makes a difference. If it does, then I predict that they’ll ask for a hand recount of the entire state.

And I see nothing wrong with this.

From today’s Chicago Tribune: “State law allows the party to select ballots from three county precincts for elections workers to inspect and recount.”

Why is Bush trying to interfere with state law?

Don’t try to argue now that the law is wrong. If it’s there, then they should all abide by it.

This solution ignores the problem that many Americans feel the electoral collage should go. Often it is easier to compromise if there are more than one issue on the table. I think that Algore should concede only if he can get Dubya to agree to champion Constitutional reform. This would actually help Dubya politically. Campaigning in favor of the popular vote would remove some of the tarnish from his administration. Hopefully once the partisanship was removed more people would agree that the popular vote was the way to go.

At least, that’s what I’d prefer if I favored a solution.
Since no one has been hurt yet I am rather enjoying this Constitutional Crisis.
Who knows what will happen once we throw open the doors to the idea that the Constitution isn’t perfect?

Isn’t Gore requesting four?

I wasn’t aware of that from the Trib. Does law allow the other party to object?

As I understand it, a few representative counties are recounted by hand. If there are reasonably-large discrepancies between the hand-count numbers and the machine-count numbers, the remaining counties in the state must then recount by hand.

But, this is my recollection of something heard earlier today on the news, and I could be wrong.

Please. The 50% of the popular vote who voted for Bush mostly love the electoral college. Why should Bush embrace an issue that benefits his opponents supporters?

I’m not convinced that Republicans are electoral collage lovers at heart.
Although one of Boris B’s typically informative posts just informed me that the Republican Party has its reasons to favor it.