Why is fried chicken racist in the USA?

[Spoke]

@Quartz

Yes, you’ve misunderstood me. Presumably northern whites had plenty of exposure to southern whites in the Civil War and WW1. And presumably southern whites travelled to the north and west anyway, taking their culinary proclivities with them. So I’m failing to see why fried chicken and watermelon is seen as a ‘black thing’ rather than a ‘southern thing’.

OK, now I get you. And the answer is that in those days (1910-1930) northerners wouldn’t have been exposed to southerners very much, certainly not on a day-to-day basis. (And of course there were no mass media until radio came along.)

So when the Great Migration happened, a lot of northerners were getting exposed to southern eating habits for the first time, and since the people migrating were black, those eating habits came to be associated with black people. (At least that’s my theory, which I think is pretty sound.)

White southerners did later migrate north in larger numbers to work in the factories there, but I think by then the stereotype was already affixed to black people.

[Nars_Glinley]

@raspberry_hunter

(However, by BBQ I mean real NC pig-pickin’ BBQ with vinegar-based sauce, not that rib tomato-based-sauce stuff you get in weird places like Texas.)

I guess it’s pistols at dawn.

[pulykamell]

@raspberry_hunter

(However, by BBQ I mean real NC pig-pickin’ BBQ with vinegar-based sauce, not that rib tomato-based-sauce stuff you get in weird places like Texas.)

I’m with you, but doesn’t western NC (Lexington) also have a tomato-based sauce? I do barbecue several times a year (pork shoulder/butt), and usually have three sauces, one vinegar-based, a similar one with tomato/ketchup, and a mustard-based (South Carolina) sauce. Unsurprisingly, here in the Midwest, the tomato-based one is most popular, second is mustard (about half as popular as the tomato), and a distant third is the vinegar-based finishing sauce (I’m pretty much the only one who likes that one).

[Quartz]

Coincidence of mass migration and mass media, huh?

Colour ignorance fought!

[Argent_Towers]

@pulykamell

My father made a similar mistake when I first invited a black friend over with a couple white guys to jam (musically) in the basement. I introduced my father to Marcus and my father, trying to make conversation, by the second or third sentence said something like “Do you know any good barbecue places?” Now, my father was born in Poland and, while aware of the stereotype that blacks are linked to barbecue and other soul food, did not realize that this can be construed as racist in an American context. He meant that completely innocently. If I invited a local Italian or German friend, he’d be just as likely to ask “know any good Italian/German restaurants,” since he’s interested in that sort of thing.

Unfortunately, my friend sort of got a deer-in-headlights look that said, “I cannot BELIEVE I’ve just been asked that question” and sort of shrugged it off, later telling me how fucked up it was that my father asked the question. But it sincerely was an innocent question on my father’s part (and one that Marcus did actually know the answer to.)

It’s bullshit for someone to be offended by something like this. If I met a Jewish guy in a city (and I knew he was Jewish), I would definitely ask him if there were any good Jewish delis. If I met a Chinese person I would ask where the best Chinese place is. Your father’s question was just an honest question and to get worked up about it is absurd, and the fact that our society gets so worked up about this stuff shows how insane people are about perceived racism.

[Troy_McClure_SF]

@Argent_Towers

It’s bullshit for someone to be offended by something like this. If I met a Jewish guy in a city (and I knew he was Jewish), I would definitely ask him if there were any good Jewish delis. If I met a Chinese person I would ask where the best Chinese place is. Your father’s question was just an honest question and to get worked up about it is absurd, and the fact that our society gets so worked up about this stuff shows how insane people are about perceived racism.

Agreed. On Seinfeld, Jerry is looking for a good Chinese place in the area, and he asks the mailman, because he’d obviously know where one would be. The mailman stands up, and, being Chinese, yells at Jerry for being racist. Which one is being racist there?

If I asked a [] person where the best [_] food was and they got pissed, I’d probably tell them I asked them because they’re human and near me, and then not talk to them again.

[samclem]

@pulykamell

I’m with you, but doesn’t western NC (Lexington) also have a tomato-based sauce?

Yep. Once you get west of Raleigh/Durham, you get tomato based sauces. East is just vinegar based.

[aerodave]

The first Chappelle clip reminds me of a personal anecdote, which itself is an opportunity to add another black American sterotype to the mix: menthol cigarettes.

In the late 90s, I was working in a convenience store. We had plenty of regular customers, and I took pride in recognizing them and knowing what they wanted without them having to ask. This worked especially well for cigarettes, because those were something I could access from behind the counter. One of my regulars, a black man, came in most days and got a pack of Newports. (Newports are a brand of menthol cigarette, and menthol cigarettes are known for being more popular with black smokers.)

One day, I thought I saw him entering the store, and I reached for his usual pack of Newports and put them on the counter before he could even ask for them. He always seemed to appreciate it, with comments like “You know me well.” Only this time, it was someone else…Mr. Newport’s spitting image. (And no, this isn’t a case of some cracker thinking black people all look alike. This guy looked incredibly similar.) He had me fooled until he made it halfway between the door and the counter, and then I realized my mistake. Before I could even think to start putting the cigarettes back, he shouts as he approaches the counter, “What the fuck, man? You think just because you see a black man walk in here, he wants menthols? Might as well get out the malt liquor while you’re at it!”

I stood there, embarrassed and speechless for a moment, not unlike a deer in headlights. Finally, I spit out the only explanation I had…the truth. “I’m sorry, I thought you were someone else.” Only after the words left my lips did I realize that those words wouldn’t smooth things over.

“Yeah, we all look the same to you, huh?”

I apologized again and asked what I could get for him. Without changing his disgusted tone, and thereby showing that he did not sense the irony of his request, he said, “Give me a pack of Kools.”

He took his cigarettes and change and left without saying another word. I’m just glad my embarrassment didn’t give way to laughter until after he got out the door.

[Johnny_Angel]

@JerseyFrank

You might be able to get away with a websiteor a book about it though.

My first thought upon viewing that post on Ray-Ban Wayfarers was “You fools! You’re only hastening the return of aviator sunglasses!” They’ve doomed us all.

[YogSothoth]

How is it harmful to say black people like fried chicken or watermelon? Some stereotypes are bad, but saying a group of people like a particular food, a popular one at that, doesn’t seem harmful to me. I should be able to make jokes about blacks and fried chicken without reprocussion because it’s not a negative stereotype

[Odesio]

A passage from Three Years in Arkansaw: Beats All Books You Ever Saw by Marion Hughes published in 1904 where the coroner is examining a large black woman discovered in her bed dead for cause of death (pgs. 85-86):

The question arose whether she was dead or not. We were all afraid to touch her for if she had moved we would have gone out the door like sheep over a fence. Finally, I suggested that we get a young chicken and fry it nicely and hold it up before her and if she didn’t reach for it, she was dead. I knew that much about a nigger…There were very few niggers in that part of Arkansaw and what few there were occasionally found themselves dead of a morning, but they were like all other niggers. When they won’t reach for a piece of fried chicken you can prepare for a funeral.

Keep in mind that this is supposed to be a humorous little anecdote.

It’s not necessarily “harmful” to say that one group likes fried chicken but when it’s become part of a racial stereotype it certainly can be.

Odesio

[Spoke]

@YogSosoth

How is it harmful to say black people like fried chicken or watermelon? Some stereotypes are bad, but saying a group of people like a particular food, a popular one at that, doesn’t seem harmful to me. I should be able to make jokes about blacks and fried chicken without reprocussion because it’s not a negative stereotype

The problem is that there are so many negative historical images associated with those particular foods (like this and this and this), so making the connection today dredges up those negative associations.

[Spoke]

And I think I must be wrong about the stereotype dating from the Great Migration. In looking for those images, I found several similar ones that pre-date the Great Migration. So there goes my theory.

[Hyperelastic]

@typoink

It’s the difference between “Many black people enjoy fried chicken” and “you’re black; I’ll bet you love fried chicken, don’t you?”

I still don’t get it. I am a descendant of hillbillies and sometimes rather sensitive about it, but if someone were to say, “You love cornbread, don’t you?” I really do not think I would take offense. Now, if someone asked whether I loved corn liquor, or if I’d ever eaten road kill, that could lead to fisticuffs, but that’s a whole different thing.

Some have stated that fried chicken was once considered a low-class food; if that was ever true, it couldn’t have been that low class. It hasn’t been long since meat of any kind was confined to special occasions for most people. And it certainly has no class connotations today.

Perhaps the joke is supposed to be that anyone who would get that excited about fried chicken must be kind of a fool, because fried chicken is just, well, fried chicken, like if Bill Gates made fun of me for getting excited about a sale at Home Depot. But I would say that particular nuance has been completely lost, if it ever existed.

[AWB]

According to the DC (local) politicians, recycling is racist. Or more specifically, deposits on cans and bottles is racist.

[Leo_Bloom]

When non Jews find out I’m both a Jew and a New Yorker, for them it’s a twofer for asking about pastrami joints. I happen to know the best few, and give my rankings and their reasons, and insist that they order a Dr. Brown CelRay (celery soda), which is essential with pastrami (it actually started out as an only-in-Brooklyn-Jewish-neighborhood available drink. All of that’s inside info, so to speak, and I’m actually quite proud of talking about it. I like the lore and introducing people, etc.
No hurt feelings, just the opposite. (Were someone ask me to do their books, because he heard that Jews “were good with money,” it would be different.)

BTW, you cannot find any bagels and lox, or pastrami, in Israel, until relatively recently for tourists.

[rogerbox]

@Hyperelastic

I still don’t get it. I am a descendant of hillbillies and sometimes rather sensitive about it, but if someone were to say, “You love cornbread, don’t you?” I really do not think I would take offense.

This is because “hillbillies” have never been sold as property in this country, amongst the many other things that have systematically occured to blacks that haven’t occured to white people regardless of socio-economic class. Has cornbread been used as a joke by people who came in white sheets in the night and rounded up hillbillies for lynching?

[Magiver]

@YogSosoth

How is it harmful to say black people like fried chicken or watermelon? Some stereotypes are bad, but saying a group of people like a particular food, a popular one at that, doesn’t seem harmful to me. I should be able to make jokes about blacks and fried chicken without reprocussion because it’s not a negative stereotype

The stereotype wasn’t just the connection of product to a demographic, the presentation was done with extreme derision and prejudice. Image seeing a postcard with “We’s all know da nigga likes his fried chicken”. It was racism in the truest sense of the word where black people were depictied as an inferior race. This went on for generations and is deeply ingrained in American history.

[BrandonR]

Regardless of its origins, videos like this don’t exactly help to dispel the stereotype.

[Spoke]

@julius blaze

This is because “hillbillies” have never been sold as property in this country, amongst the many other things that have systematically occured to blacks that haven’t occured to white people regardless of socio-economic class.

Well, for the record, many “hillbillies” are descended from indentured servants who were little better than slaves for a seven-year span. And in fact they were often worked harder and treated worse than slaves because to work an indentured servant to death meant no great loss (and could even save his master some of the back end costs of the indentured servant system), whereas a slave, if nothing else, at least had value as property. And slave owners took some care to preserve the value of that property.

Moreover hillbillies, while not subject to the same violence that black people have faced in the past century, have endured their own share of bigotry and prejudice. Not that we’re going to whine about it.

Note that I agree with you that chicken and watermelon images are offensive for black people, and reasonably so.