Why is George Lucas despised by so many Star Wars fans?

[Bosstone]

Where I’m lost is why anyone would be keeping tabs on Tatooine at all. It’s a complete backwater, ignored by both the Republic and the Empire (which is why Jabba has such strong authority there; the galactic governments don’t care enough to take him out), and Vader has completely shed his old life and isn’t looking back. It’s not like he shows up every Thanksgiving to have a chat with Watto or the Lars family. He wasn’t even aware the children had lived. As soon as he had his NOOOO moment, his entire being was centered on carrying out Palpatine’s will.

Also consider: how many people really do know Skywalker became Vader? As far as I can tell the only living people who’d know are Palpatine, Obi-wan, and Yoda. The first has no reason to tell and the other two are in exile. From the time Anakin became Darth Vader to when he was rescued by Palpatine and put in the life support suit, everyone he encountered died except for those three people. An Imperial bureaucrat might notice that this kid on Tatooine has the same name as a former hero of the Republic, but as far as anyone knows he died in the “Jedi uprising.”

Really, putting Luke with the Lars family on Tatooine is no less safe than putting him with any arbitrary family on any arbitrary backwater, and at least they’re blood kin.

ETA: Oh, yes, and Bail Organa, but he has just as much reason to hide the truth as the other three.

[Grumman]

@Guinastasia

Yes he does-he needs to watch over Luke.

Yes, I know. He and Luke would be better off on some backwater than staying next-door to Anakin’s step-brother.

[Little_Nemo]

Where I’m lost is why anyone would be keeping tabs on Tatooine at all. It’s a complete backwater

A complete backwater - except that Darth Vader was born there. There were extensive shrines to the birthplaces of people like Napoleon and Hitler and Stalin and Mao or Lincoln or Gandhi in the otherwise insignificant villages they were born in.

[Bosstone]

@Little_Nemo

A complete backwater - except that Darth Vader was born there. There were extensive shrines to the birthplaces of people like Napoleon and Hitler and Stalin and Mao or Lincoln or Gandhi in the otherwise insignificant villages they were born in.

Yes, but does anyone know that? Only Palpatine and Vader would know Vader’s true origin, and I doubt either would be eager to tell.

It’s possible Anakin Skywalker had fans, but the Jedi were big on cutting ties to their old lives too, and they probably kept that as secret as they could.

[Grumman]

@Irishman

Yes, that was my point, too. A New Hope gave us Ben hiding out on some backwater planet with the son of his slaughtered friend. * Empire *changed that story, to Ben hiding out with Vader’s son with Vader’s step-brother on the planet Vader grew up on. Oops. How do you fix that?

Simple: just because Luke calls Owen “uncle” doesn’t mean he’s related by blood. All that means is that Luke grew up thinking some guy named Anakin Skywalker was Owen’s brother, or that he just uses “uncle” when speaking to someone who is a father figure but not literally his father.

@Bosstone

Also consider: how many people really do know Skywalker became Vader? As far as I can tell the only living people who’d know are Palpatine, Obi-wan, and Yoda.

Yes, that Palpatine knows. Both the people Kenobi would most want to hide from (Vader and Palpatine) know about Anakin becoming Darth Vader, and anything that might be stopping Vader going and having a look isn’t going to be stopping Palpatine or his minions.

[YamatoTwinkie]

@Little_Nemo

Another clumsy scene was one of the final scenes in Revenge of the Sith. Lucas apparently wanted to link the later trilogy with the original one, so he had a scene where Vader and Tarkin are standing on the bridge of the Death Star - just like we had seen them doing in an early scene in Star Wars.

I’m pretty sure they were never implied to be on the Death Star duing the scene that you mentioned. Probably just a early-model star destroyer or something.

[Bosstone]

@Grumman

Yes, that Palpatine knows. Both the people Kenobi would most want to hide from (Vader and Palpatine) know about Anakin becoming Darth Vader, and anything that might be stopping Vader going and having a look isn’t going to be stopping Palpatine or his minions.

I’ll certainly admit it’s not the wisest move on Obi-Wan’s part, just considering security in abstract.

However, I don’t find it implausible at all that Palpatine would forget about Tatooine entirely. And even then, would he know about the Lars family? He might have set it up so Shmi got pregnant with his Chosen One (or his master did before Palpatine killed him, depending on which theory you like), but once his Chosen One moved to Coruscant, would he have cared about what happened to Shmi afterward (ie, being sold to Lars and having children by him)? I suppose it wouldn’t be hard to have eyes and ears keep tabs on her, but there’s also better ways to use intel resources. Further, the Lars family is not only on a backwater with very little authority in place (and what there is is criminal), but they’re moisture farmers. They’re pretty much literally in the middle of Nowhere, and nobody gives a damn about them except at harvest time.

Really, the major point in all this fanwankery is that neither Palpatine nor Vader knew that Vader had a kid, and if they were concerned about Obi-Wan without worrying about the kids, then Tatooine is just as arbitrary a backwater for him to hide on as anywhere else in the galaxy. And on Tatooine, he was only known as old hermit Ben. Did he even use Ben as a nickname when Anakin was around?

[shy_guy]

@YamatoTwinkie

I’m pretty sure they were never implied to be on the Death Star duing the scene that you mentioned. Probably just a early-model star destroyer or something.

That was my impression as well.

Regarding what appears to be a bone-headed plan on Obi-Wan’s part…

I can see the point of view that Luke might have been as safe on Tatooine as anywhere, but at the very least it seems like Obi-Wan was taking an unnecessary risk. There was always the chance that Anakin would want to eradicate traces of his former life like the Lars family, a risk to Luke that wouldn’t have been an issue if he had picked any other planet in the universe.

Letting Luke keep his real last name was a bad move, too. Luke wanted to join the Empire before he met Obi-Wan, after all (or at least that’s what I assume the “Academy” he whines about in Star Wars is). Obi-Wan knew that the kid was going to be exceptional and attract attention by virtue of his strength in the Force; why take the chance of drawing attention to his lineage?

[Bosstone]

@shy_guy

Letting Luke keep his real last name was a bad move, too. Luke wanted to join the Empire before he met Obi-Wan, after all (or at least that’s what I assume the “Academy” he whines about in Star Wars is). Obi-Wan knew that the kid was going to be exceptional and attract attention by virtue of his strength in the Force; why take the chance of drawing attention to his lineage?

Now that’s a good point I’d forgotten about. Can you just imagine Luke entering the Naval Academy and winding up as a TIE pilot on the Executor? That will come to Vader’s attention at some point or another.

[Frylock]

Does any Star Wars fiction deal with alternate universes?

[Gangster_Octopus]

When the original Star Wars[ came out it was something new and unlike any movie experience before it and it really kind of blew a whole generation away. Then 20 years later the prequels are made and what is fundamentally differnt, just everything about movies in general. they in general are bigger, more popcorn-y, filled with more sophisticated speical effects etc. IN other words the prequels were just like other movies that have been spanned basically by the original Star Wars. We have changed and the world has changed, yet some folks think that you could simple recreate those conditions with the right movie.

[Jilaad]

I don’t have too big of a problem with putting Luke on Tatooine. Putting Luke out in plain sight keeps Leia better hidden. Vader knew that Padme was pregnant, but didn’t know about the twins. If he did find Luke with Obi-Wan right there, he would think “Oh that tricky Obi-Wan! Now his failure is complete!” without ever even knowing about Leia.

We actually get to see this play out in Return of the Jedi. The only thing that blew the plan is that Luke couldn’t keep his darn mind shut.

Of course, one HUGE hole in all this is that it seems Obi-Wan never knew about Leia (“No, there is another”). This could be fanwanked away by saying he’s just carrying out Yoda’s plan, and Obi-Wan was never told about Leia for added security in case someone tries to read his thoughts.

But he was in the delivery room when they both came out and got named. I think he even held them both. Oops!

[Little_Nemo]

When the original Star Wars[ came out it was something new and unlike any movie experience before it and it really kind of blew a whole generation away. Then 20 years later the prequels are made and what is fundamentally differnt, just everything about movies in general. they in general are bigger, more popcorn-y, filled with more sophisticated speical effects etc. IN other words the prequels were just like other movies that have been spanned basically by the original Star Wars. We have changed and the world has changed, yet some folks think that you could simple recreate those conditions with the right movie.

No, not really. I was around back in 1977 when Star Wars was released. The general consensus was that it was a throwback to the movie serials of the thirties and forties. The special effects were regarded as state-of-the-art but there had been a string of SF movies that had come out in the nine years since 2001: A Space Odyssey had been released in 1968. Star Wars was a thirties style story with a seventies style look - a well-made synthesis but nothing groundbreaking.

[Guinastasia]

@Bosstone

Now that’s a good point I’d forgotten about. Can you just imagine Luke entering the Naval Academy and winding up as a TIE pilot on the Executor? That will come to Vader’s attention at some point or another.

Why do you think Owen was so opposed to it?
As for Obi-Wan not know “there was another,” I’m guessing he’s thinking, “What, Leia? She’s never shown any sign of being strong in the Force, dude.”

I guess THAT’S how you could explain it. But yeah, Lucas really screwed the pooch there.

[Irishman]

[QUOTE=Bosstone]

Where I’m lost is why anyone would be keeping tabs on Tatooine at all.
[/QUOTE]

Theoretically, that is true. But it’s the principle of Witness Protection, the first thing you do is sever all ties with your formal life. That means no connection whatsoever with the people and places you used to know. Anything that could be tied to you.

So why take any chances, and hang Luke’s actual last name on him, sure to attract Palpatine and Vader’s attention if ever discovered? Obi-wan is at least smart enough to use an alias, though with the same last name that might not be the brightest. Maybe Kenobi is generic enough not to matter. I don’t know, I suppose Skywalker could be “Brown” for all we know, but that seems unlikely.

I’m not asserting that Vader or Palpatine would put a watch on Tatooine “just in case”, or to keep track of Vader’s old not quite family members, or anything like that. I’m just looking at the sensible things to do hiding out to minimize attention. One of those is NOT live with people that have a connection, however tenuous, to the people from whom you are hiding.

Also consider: how many people really do know Skywalker became Vader?

Interesting question. If Vader’s past is kept murky and unknown by most of the galaxy, especially after a couple decades, that may be true. So no random bureaucrat’s are going to recognize the name to draw their attention. Fair enough. Still, it’s a stupid move when you are in hiding. At least Leia has a different last name.

And speaking of Leia and Bail, I don’t recall Bail being in Eps IV - VI. You have to wonder why he never mentioned any of this to Leia. Okay, I can see not telling her while she’s young, but surely after she’s become one of the heads of the Rebellion and is a major player he should fill her in on a little history. “Pssst, ya’ probably don’t want to be macking on that farmboy over there, stick with the space pirate.” Was he killed at some point?

[QUOTE=Grumman]

Simple: just because Luke calls Owen “uncle” doesn’t mean he’s related by blood. All that means is that Luke grew up thinking some guy named Anakin Skywalker was Owen’s brother, or that he just uses “uncle” when speaking to someone who is a father figure but not literally his father.
[/QUOTE]

I thought about that. I’m not able to recall specifically all the things Owen and Beru say about Anakin, so I can’t remember if there are any specifics like, “Oh, Owen, you always were jealous of your brother.” Okay, that line isn’t there, but you get the drift.

But it’s a moot point anyway, because Lucas made it happen.

[QUOTE=Bosstone]

He might have set it up so Shmi got pregnant with his Chosen One (or his master did before Palpatine killed him, depending on which theory you like),
[/QUOTE]

Did I miss something? Where did that come from?

[QUOTE=shy guy]

Luke wanted to join the Empire before he met Obi-Wan, after all (or at least that’s what I assume the “Academy” he whines about in Star Wars is).
[/QUOTE]

No, I believe that’s some confusion caused by terminology choices by Lucas. I think by “the Academy” in Ep IV, he’s talking about the Academe, i.e. university. He wants to run off to college and is stuck working on the farm. His attitude about Stormtroopers and the Empire is shown before his family is slaughtered. I assume Lucas was trying to be a little exotic.

[Mister_Rik]

@Little_Nemo

No, not really. I was around back in 1977 when Star Wars was released. The general consensus was that it was a throwback to the movie serials of the thirties and forties. The special effects were regarded as state-of-the-art but there had been a string of SF movies that had come out in the nine years since 2001: A Space Odyssey had been released in 1968. Star Wars was a thirties style story with a seventies style look - a well-made synthesis but nothing groundbreaking.

All I can say is that Star Wars was the first movie whose TV commercials completely grabbed my attention and made me beg my parents to see it until they finally caved. My parents were not big moviegoers, and thus I didn’t see a lot of movies (in the theater at any rate) growing up. But certainly I’d seen plenty of movie commercials on TV, and none of them so visually stunned me that I absolutely had to see this movie. So at 11 years old, my parents took me to see Star Wars, and I’ve been warped ever since

And I must have thought Princess Leia was an angel, because when she rolled over on her “bed”, propped herself on one elbow and said, “Aren’t you kind of short for a stormtrooper?”, she was the most beautiful thing I’d ever seen. sigh

[Little_Nemo]

And speaking of Leia and Bail, I don’t recall Bail being in Eps IV - VI. You have to wonder why he never mentioned any of this to Leia. Okay, I can see not telling her while she’s young, but surely after she’s become one of the heads of the Rebellion and is a major player he should fill her in on a little history. “Pssst, ya’ probably don’t want to be macking on that farmboy over there, stick with the space pirate.” Was he killed at some point?

Having denounced fanwanking, I’m now going to indulge in it. But I assume Bail Organa was killed when Alderaan was blown up if he hadn’t died already in the previous twenty years. So he wouldn’t have been around to warn Leia to stay away from the Skywalker boy.

[Anaamika]

I can see Luke being hidden in the manner of the Purloined Letter.

[Bosstone]

@Irishman

Was he killed at some point?

He was on Alderaan. So that would be a very big yes.

[LawMonkey]

@shy_guy

Letting Luke keep his real last name was a bad move, too. Luke wanted to join the Empire before he met Obi-Wan, after all (or at least that’s what I assume the “Academy” he whines about in Star Wars is). Obi-Wan knew that the kid was going to be exceptional and attract attention by virtue of his strength in the Force; why take the chance of drawing attention to his lineage?

Minor jack, though it’s related to one of my personal minor beefs with the effect that the prequels had on things. What’s the standard 'wank on the whole Academy business? If the entire Imperial military other than officers are clones, there’s not much need for an academy to be a flyboy. There’d be an academy for the officers, but I would imagine that it would be incredibly “elite”–you’d need either connections at the highest level or tons of credits to even have the privilege of submitting an application. Is it supposed to be a Rebel Academy? This might make some sense; didn’t he say Wedge went to the Academy last year? Of course, a tiny Rebellion that’s constantly on the run being able to have an “Academy” to train officers and pilots doesn’t make much sense either.

I won’t mention the notion that Han was once an Imperial officer, since that was EU and hence never fully canon. All of this, of course, arises from the fact that the entire Imperial military is now apparently cloned. I’d always thought that the Clone Wars were a fight against clones, or maybe about cloning, and I’d always liked the notion of people either signing up with the Imp military, either seeing it as a way to get ahead, or else being conscripted into it. Now… well, it’s all clones.

Incidentally, for me, the greatest indictment of the prequels is that other, non-Lucas stuff from the era, such as both the original and CG Clone Wars cartoons, manage to be more entertaining and engaging, and to develop the characters better, than the films ever did. The original cartoons even did it with a minimum of dialog! (Of course, the prequels might’ve been better off as silent films, given how George writes…)