I was reading the thread here about Lawrence Taylor’s arrest and someone said that his ignorance of the girls age would not prevent charges against him. If I have consensual sex with someone that looks and acts like a 21 year old and has fake ID to prove it but is really, say, 17, why would I be in legal trouble? If I genuinely believed her to be 21 and had no way of knowing otherwise?
I’ve often wondered about this. Especially if the girl is a prostitute or at least a casual date, how many men would bother to ask for two pieces of photo ID?
Yeah! And along those same lines, why can the police ticket you for speeding if your car’s speedometer is broken?
:rolleyes:
In my state, this is at least an affirmative defense. If you can prove it, the judge will throw the ticket out, and issue a malfunctioning equipment ticket.
Doesn’t quite work that way with statutory rape.
it’s a symptom of the larger problem of anarcho-tyranny in our society Sam Francis (writer) - Wikipedia . Are you trying to imply here that the justice system cares about “justice” or something?
but those aren’t along the same lines. one is an active lie that can do irreparable damage, and the other is broken equipment that can be easily fixed.
Because it’s your responsibility to drive a car with a working speedometer. How is it your responsibility to verify the age of the person you’re having casual sex with? “Responsible” sex usually entails treating the other person kindly and using protection. It shouldn’t entail getting a background check.
The reason is an issue of public policy. We have determined, as a society, that we should protect our children. We have written statutes making it a crime to have sex under certain circumstances (hence, “statutory” rape). Because it is per se illegal to have sex with a child, it is no defense that you didn’t know he/she was underage. Caveat emptor, as it were.
Also, the claim is made that a person who knew perfectly well what the kid’s age was could claim ignorance to get out of the charge.
That’s the claim that is made. I don’t say it is necessarily a good claim.
Would that defence even work in court? Despite 9/11 and REAL ID fake IDs (particulary driver’s licences) are ridiculously easy to get; ask any college/high school student. Of course it’s also possible to obtain a real, govt issued ID, fradualently. I know people who did just that. Traci Lords even managed to convince the US Department of State that she was of legal age. I don’t know if any of her costars were charged with statutory rape, but the agents and film producers were charged with child pornography.
Which just means that public policy is immoral. Unfortunately, as much as people cry about this, no one seems to actually want to do anything about it.
Sorry for my flippancy. I just have trouble dredging up a lot of sympathy for this sort of thing. If I don’t know a girl well enough to know how old she is, I don’t know her well enough to have sex with her, IMO. (And really, worried about asking for ID from a prostitute? As if having sex with a prostitute is perfectly legal as long as she’s old enough …)
Statutory rape as a strict liability offense is our society’s way of putting responsibility for protecting children on every adult. It’s really easy to avoid statutory rape charges–don’t have sex with minors. If you’re not positive she’s over the age of consent in your jurisdiction, then just walk away. Real easy. This kind of charge isn’t something innocent people get caught up in.
I see statutory rape laws as well intended, but impractical in real life. Oftentimes society has to decide on which side they stand on a nebulous issue. On this one, I stand with the accused. Some kids just look older so it should be a defense that the perp didn’t know the prostitute’s age. Hell, if the kids in these scenarios are lying about it, then they are already damaged and there’s no need to overprotect them in order to protect kids in general
It does sort of make hash of due process, though…
I eagerly await your providing notorized birth certificates for every woman you’ve ever slept with.
Ah, but the scenario posited by the OP is a woman who looks to be 21 *and *has an ID to “prove” it.
I haven’t decided which side I want to weigh in on in this argument yet but I want to respond to this.
First of all, there is no arbitrary point where you suddenly know someone well enough to have sex. If two people who just met want to fuck, more power to them.
Second of all, prostitution shouldn’t be illegal. It’s not morally comparable to having sex with a minor.
Whether or not you agree it’s “just”, Campion’s post contains the legal logic underlying the issue. Caveat fornicator, perhaps?
This concept bothers me. Assume I’m at a bar and a younger looking woman starts chatting me up. I know she’s been carded once to get in and at least one other person thinks she looks old enough to be 21. While talking to her she gives no indication of being in high school. How am I supposed to verify her age?
This whole concept seems to make sense in theory but in practice is impossible. I went to college with girls that could pass for high schoolers when they were seniors and now that I’m in my late 20s most of the college kids look young to me so that isn’t a reliable reference to how old someone is. On the other hand I could see how the law would seek to prevent someone from claiming ignorance to the age of a girl they pick up from school after cheerleading practice. I guess jury nullification is the only hope.
I think that happened on an episode of Law & Order:SVU. A man was being charged with statutory rape of a 16 who he met in a bar. She was the bartender and used a fake ID to get the job.
It turned out that she was actually in her 20s and enrolled in high school under a fake identity; the “fake ID” that showed she was over 21 was in fact her real ID.
Ditto. I work in a casino and there are TONS of people whose age I could not guess offhand. Perhaps if everyone had some sort of infallible age-identifying device, perhaps on the hand?