In realpolitik terms, why is Israel a U.S. ally? It seems like they are more trouble than they are worth. True, they are the only democracy in the region (at least for the portion of the population that is enfranchised) and don’t seem to be as nuts (with some exceptions) as their neighbors, but for a state that has secretly acquired nuclear weapons, engages in assassinations, etc., we cut them an awful lot of slack. What do we get, other than a little intel?
Thanks,
Rob
It’s a Judaeo-Christian thing, partly.
Well, this will be moved promptly, I’d say.
Anyhow, there is a long tradition of Zionism in the fundamentalist branch of the Christians in the US, going back to the 1870s or so (± 25years). For Christ to return, the temple needs to be rebuilt in the Nation of Israel. Of course, after that, things get a bit sticky for the Jews (who’da thunk?). 144,000 will convert, and the rest will be smited by Jesus and his posse of firesword brandishing angels. Gog and Magog (Russia? China? Iran?) will come down out of the North and East, and meet the battle at the plains of Megiddo (har-meggido= Armageddon). After that, it’s lights out, and the new Heaven and the new Earth will be created, and there will be 12 crystal gates (each of a different mineral) spaced evenly around the four walls of the City of God, which will stretch the equivalent distance of New York to Omaha, wherein all of the saved will reside, mostly standing around a sea of crystal, strumming harps and singing God’s praises for all eternity. (the choir will be lead by 144 elders and a four-headed beast). The rest of God’s creation will be banished into a pit or lake of fire with Satan and his minions.
Or something like that. Skipped over a few details, like the Rapture and the Millennium.
Not bad for a former Calvinist, eh?
Meh. You were predestined to remember that…
Could it be that they provide us with a stable ally in an area where we have few others?
Marc
Thanks for the replies, but I was after the reasons of professional diplomats not religious loonies. I understand that those people do have a certain amount of sway, but I don’t think their influence is comparable to AIPAC. Other than lobbying, religious zealotry and Holocaust guilt, why do we support Israel? I realize this is GD fodder, but I’d like to keep this as dispassionate as possible (my comments about religious loonies notwithstanding).
Thanks again,
Rob
I’m not sure how this one can survive as a GQ, so moving to Great Debates. You can still get factual answers there.
samclem
One of those odd historical things. As a fan of alternative hisotry, I could easily see it going the other way. A socialist east-Euorpean dominated Israel being an ally of the Soviets. The newly de colonialized Arab states being allies of the US.
The “diplomatic” reason is the one MGibson gave. Israel is stable, they’re usually on our side, and they give the terrorists all kinds of hell. Therefore, our leaders look the other way when Israel gets mad and sends helicopters out to blow up a few random Palestinian [del]civilians[/del] “militants.”
I think I recall reading that the earliest Israeli settlers had many socialists among them and organized themselves in ways similar to communism. Isn’t that what a Kibbutz is, or originally was - a commune? I think there were many socialist and communist groups in Israel that supported the Soviets. I bet if Israel had started as a socialist settlement with no “Zionist” overtones of religion, the USSR would have supported them. Alas, according to this Wikipedia page on Soviet-Israeli relations, it was not the case, and the Soviets supported the Arab nations in their war with Israel.
Interestingly, Josef Stalin set up a state called the Jewish Autonomous Oblast all the way out in the far-eastern part of the Soviet empire, near China. It was supposed to be a sort of socialist-quasi-Israel-knockoff, a place where Jews could supposedly have a “homeland.” He didn’t force the Jews to move there or anything, he just encouraged them to start a secular “Yiddish” state where Jewish* culture* would be celebrated but the religion would be supplemented by Communism. The plan was not the success that it was hoped to be, and most Jews did not emigrate there (I think the area had a pretty shitty terrain and climate.) But its proximity to China at least guaranteed that there would be hot Asian chicks nearby.
Ally in a volatile and important region, as noted. And, in addition to foreign-policy realpolitik, there are also factors based in domestic (U.S.) politics:
Lingering guilt over not having done more during WWII to save Jews from the Holocaust (on at least one occasion, a ship full of Jewish refugees was refused permission to land in the U.S., was sent back to Europe, and the refugees wound up in concentration camps).
A sympathetic mythology/propaganda about Israel from the time of its founding – by “mythology/propaganda” I do not mean dishonest or inaccurate, only that the Story of Israel has always had some romanticized resonance here even among gentiles.
The utterly bizarre but undeniably real influence of Christian Zionism, as noted above.
A Jewish-American community that, while a very small percentage of our population (1.4%), is prosperous, socially high-profile, active, well-organized, likely to vote and/or contribute to political campaigns, and (for the most part – there are notable exceptions) highly sympathetic to, even zealously supportive of, Israel.
Primarily because they are essentially a land based aircraft carrier of the United States in the middle of one of the most strategic regions in the world. A secondary effect of the close military ties is that billions upon billions of dollars in weaponry is sent to Israel, which makes its way to major U.S. weapon manufacturers. In turn, they give some small portion of that to our elected representatives.
In what way has our support of Israel materially harmed us? Well, there was that little hiccup in the 70s with OPEC, but that’s ancient history by now and but a small price to pay for what we get in return.
What does democracy have to do with whether the U.S. closely allies itself with a country or not? Very little, really. If I were going to list criteria it’d be something like a) support U.S. military and air bases in your country b) support U.S. policy in the region and c) do what we say. As long as you fulfill one of those, we don’t really care how you run your society – whether you execute political dissidents by boiling them in oil, or if you have a parliament, or if you’re committing genocide against your own people or even your neighbors with all the guns and missiles we sell you, it really isn’t here or there.
Also, aren’t there a lot of American citizens in Israel at any one time - either in kibbutz, living there as expats, or touring the various Xian and Jewish holy sites? Basically, it’s the same reason the Crusader states were established - to look after your own citizens. This isn’t IMO the major reason, but it should be a factor.
A few notes and nitpicks -
Until the appearence of its religious offshoot in the 1970’s, Zionism was a secular, even anti-religious movement. In fact, most of Israel’s “founding fathers” (and “mothers”) were agnostics or atheists.
The Kibbutzim, originally, were very much communist entities, and the Israeli “establishment”, both pre-and post-independence (until 1977) was Social-Democratic. So yes, Israel could very well have gone with the Soviet Block, if it hadn’t ultimately chosen democracy over socialism. The watershed moment came in 1950, when the Ben-Gurion administration decided to back the UN (meaning the West) in the matter of Korea, even offering to send a token military force.
The U.S. has no military bases in Israel, although they’re welcome to come by any time they want. So far, there’s been no need.
Most U.S. citizens in Israel are actually immigrants or children of immigrants, like Your’s Truly. I don’t know how many of us there are, here, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it reached three digits.
The fact that Israel’s a democracy *is * important, because it means that we can’t just turn on a dime and sell you guys out. Dictatorships can do just that, and if they don’t, the people who overthrow them will. What do you think would happen if the Mubarak regime in Egypt, another U.S. ally, should fall, putting the Muslim Brotherhood in power?
This may sound trite, but Israeli sympathy for America comes from the bottom up. Besides the business, scientific and military ties between the countries, as well as the very strong American influences on our culture, Israelis generally like America and Americans - which you have to admit is more than you can say about most of your European allies. Dictators can act acording to pure realpolitik, but elected officials can’t; not when their voters have feelings for the subject.
You forget the final issue: When we ask Israel to do something, generally, they do. For example, despite being rocketed to hell in the first gulf war, they did not respond. If they had responded, the coalition would have had issues, as various gulf states would have had to break off.
They just sat there and took being bombed. Because we asked them to.
That’s the kind of good ally they are.
Not to mention, of course, I don’t think all of these ‘secret missions’ they do are, ah, entirely against the wishes of the US. Like the recent bombing of Syria. I kind of get the feeling that we don’t disapprove of that. Nor the bombing of the nuclear reactor in the 80s. Nor hunting down and killing Nazis in the 50s.
Israel had a one-party democracy until what year again? When did an opposition party first win a majority in parliament?
(edited for basic English skills)
Isarel has always had a multi-party system, but it was dominated by MAPAI (which later morphed into Labour) until the 1977 elections, which put the Likud and Menachem Begin in power.
So far, a lot of reasons that Israel is our ally sound like “because Israel is our ally”. If Egypt, say, had been our ally instead of Israel, wouldn’t a lot of things (like supporting U.S. policy in the region) be true about Egypt? It sounds to me like Israel is a U.S. ally because Stalin was an anti-semite (and DbG backed the West in Korea). I understand that we can’t undo our current loyalties and I guess it’s a good point that supporting Israel hasn’t really cost us much (I read yesterday that the Arabs hurt themselves more than us in '73, although the author didn’t explain it.)
Thanks,
Rob
I suppose you could say the same thing about Great Britain. And really, is that such a bad thing? Nations, like people, need friends they can trust. And who would you trust more - someone who’s a friend because you need something from them, or someone who’s just your friend?
Besides, we owe you. Just like the UK does.
Don’t minimize the importance of that. For me it’s about 99% of the equation; the rest follows from there.
Can you name a democracy that we haven’t been an ally of, to some extent? Or a democracy that we’ve gone to war against?
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