[QUOTE=Tapioca Dextrin]
[Nitpick]DC-8s[/NP]
Even Travoltologists aren’t dumb enough to believe that UFOs are shaped like a DC-9 :dubious:
[/QUOTE]
A quick plug for the products of the late, lamented McDonnell Douglas. The seats tended to be wider for wide-asses like me and the stews said, “Oh, you needn’t buy a second ticket. All you need is a seatbelt extender.” I dislike Boeings.
It’s ok to ridicule any religion but Scientology isn’t really a religion, it’s a racket, and a dangerous one at that.
Having said that, I think some effort should be made to distinguish between those who run the racket and those who are merely the victims of the racket.
I’ll go ahead and take the position that it’s not okay to make fun of someone for being a Scientologist. Despite the fact that it’s leadership is manifestly composed of crooks, liars, thieves, bullies, blackmailers, and the criminally negligent, individual members deserve as much respect as would be granted to a believer in any other religion.
Tom Cruise, on the other hand, deserves to be mocked at every opportunity.
[QUOTE=JohnnieEnigma]
It’s not a religion. It’s a cult.
[/QUOTE]
A religion is nothing more than a big cult.
To be fair all religions are moronic. The followers of Abrahamic religions have no higher ground here. DC-8’s in space makes as much sense as a worldwide flood, the trinity or angels and demons. I mean the parable of the fig tree sounds like a mental deficient wrote it.
People hate Scientology because it’s different, it’s atheistic (kinda), and it’s new so it doesn’t have the mystique of a few thousand years that polishes a turd into pearl. Other new religions are hated too. Branch Davidians, Moonies, Mormons, whatever.
Christianity was a Jewish cult until it gained traction and transubstantiated into a bona fide religion. And for those who complain that Scientology is purely after money, might I suggest that you note that the Pope wears a gold fucking hat!
Because it’s younger and less politically powerful.Yes, it’s a racket - but so are all religions. And yes, the difference between a cult and a religion is size and power, nothing more.
:rolleyes: The medieval Catholic Church would cheerfully get your money or property by killing you and taking it. Possibly at the same time it burned your city to the ground. Compared to them, the Scientologists are a collection of warmhearted altruists.
So do other religions; like the Catholic Church’s lies about condoms and abortion.
A fairly typical religious attitude.
And the older religions practically own it.
And so have any number of other religions. Except that the older ones have been able to kill many more people.
Aren’t we hair splitting here?
I am perfectly happy to mock Scientologists for their wacky beliefs. Mind you I haven’t known any personally.
I have however known a few Mormons, all of them very nice folks, and surely their beliefs are no less idiotic than those of the scientologists. I still have my Book of Mormon from when they tried to convert me and it is simply laughable.
Really I don’t believe in any faith based religious system but don’t argue with their proponents because I can’t disprove faith but both the Mormons and the Scientologists belief utter rubbish that simply didn’t and couldn’t happen.
Because they are evil and need to be ridiculed, preferably out of existence.
Anyway, Scientology has more problems now than being ridiculed.
As probably the doper with the longest history of studying this and other cults (hobby) I am thinking that something big is about to happen with them. For one thing, they have gotten TOO famous. Many people have seen or heard of the South Park episode. Tom Cruise presents the cult in a very poor light, and may yet do a lot more harm if he goes completely nuts in public, which I think may happen soon. He seems to be on a downward spiral.
And when more of the public becomes aware that they are once again infiltrating the government there will be a call for sanctions. And check out the scieno-stare on Baca. Creeeeepy.
They are up against their own delusions. Their mandate is to “clear the planet” and kill anyone that doesn’t go along. The problem is, the farther they go on that path, the more society will oppose them. They function best like cockroaches, doing their business out of sight. The more evident they make themselves, the more cry there is for the exterminator. Best they keep hiding in the cracks and try to escape notice. But that is not consistent with their mandate to take over the world. This puts them on a collision course with doom if they ever start to succeed.
How can they explain to their membership that their website is being brought down on a regular basis? Where are the astral-traveling, superpower-possessing, all-knowing OTs to save the day? When the protesters show up at an org, they simply close the window blinds so the dupes can’t see the popular “If OTs existed, how can we be here?” sign. Or maybe they just explain that the server is clogged with cigarette smoke and is out for a cleaning.
But if these hackers are serious, they will be using that excuse for a while. Yes, I am rooting for the hackers.
Who did the Scientologists whack?
[QUOTE=treis]
Who did the Scientologists whack?
[/QUOTE]
They didn’t exactly “whack” her, but they certainly caused the death of Lisa McPherson.
[QUOTE=mswas]
Why is Scientology fair game but other religions are not?
[/QUOTE]
Cite that other religions are not? Certainly they are fair game here.
[QUOTE=JohnnieEnigma]
It’s not a religion. It’s a cult.
[/QUOTE]
And why isn’t religion but one big cult?
Edit: Dammit, spoke too late – panache45 made almost the exact same point. Well, at least I’m not the only one with this thought.
[QUOTE=Atomicktom]
And its most prominent proponents are actors, who are already subject to ridicule.
[/QUOTE]
A few of my friends and I are currently carrying on a lenghty debate: “Is Tom Cruise really an actor?” After all, it seems to some of us involved in the debatet hat he’s only had one part. Luckily for him and his wallet, that part’s been in quite a few flicks.
[QUOTE=Happy Wanderer]
They are up against their own delusions. Their mandate is to “clear the planet” and kill anyone that doesn’t go along.
[/QUOTE]
Not exactly a new thing with religion. I really don’t see how that’s any different than the typical Christian sect, except for that the Christians are more numerous and powerful. Mainly because they’ve gone quite a bit farther on their own crusade to “clear the planet”, instead of just talking about it.
There is an element of many religions (such as Christianity) that is followed by a percentage (even a signficant percentage) of the people who belong to those religions which comprises, in essence, teaching people that they should be nice to one another. There are parts of those religions that put quite significant effort into so being.
Can the same be said of Scientology? I’m not sure I know the answer to that.
Ever see a Scientologist Charity Hospital? Do they bring food to the hungry? Do they shelter any poor people? Any Scientologist orphanages? Do they do any good for anyone? Does it have any redeeming feature? I don’t think so.
Mainstream religions preach codes of conduct which, if there followers would adhere to, would make the world a better place. The problem is where the followers do not practice what they preach. The same cannot be said of Scientology.
[QUOTE=Happy Wanderer]
Because they are evil and need to be ridiculed, preferably out of existence.
Anyway, Scientology has more problems now than being ridiculed.
As probably the doper with the longest history of studying this and other cults (hobby) I am thinking that something big is about to happen with them. For one thing, they have gotten TOO famous. Many people have seen or heard of the South Park episode. Tom Cruise presents the cult in a very poor light, and may yet do a lot more harm if he goes completely nuts in public, which I think may happen soon. He seems to be on a downward spiral.
And when more of the public becomes aware that they are once again infiltrating the government there will be a call for sanctions. And check out the scieno-stare on Baca. Creeeeepy.
They are up against their own delusions. Their mandate is to “clear the planet” and kill anyone that doesn’t go along. The problem is, the farther they go on that path, the more society will oppose them. They function best like cockroaches, doing their business out of sight. The more evident they make themselves, the more cry there is for the exterminator. Best they keep hiding in the cracks and try to escape notice. But that is not consistent with their mandate to take over the world. This puts them on a collision course with doom if they ever start to succeed.
How can they explain to their membership that their website is being brought down on a regular basis? Where are the astral-traveling, superpower-possessing, all-knowing OTs to save the day? When the protesters show up at an org, they simply close the window blinds so the dupes can’t see the popular “If OTs existed, how can we be here?” sign. Or maybe they just explain that the server is clogged with cigarette smoke and is out for a cleaning.
But if these hackers are serious, they will be using that excuse for a while. Yes, I am rooting for the hackers.
[/QUOTE]
Frankly you sound much scarier than any Scientologist I’ve ever met.
[QUOTE=panache45]
A religion is nothing more than a big cult.
[/QUOTE]
That’s silly. ‘Cult’ has more connotations than size alone.
For instance, it’s not difficult to be a practitioner in good standing of a religion while spending most of your free time with nonbelievers. A cult would, at the very least, regard any member with great suspicion that spent most of his free time with persons outside the cult.
What Der Trihs, blinded as always by his irrational anti-religious zeal, fails to grasp is that not all religions are created equal. While pretty much every religion has some shameful things in its past, the crimes of Scientology are both perpetrated by its mainstream leadership and committed in modern times, when they should have known better.
I notice that you’ve skipped over
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
Because it’s younger and less politically powerful.Yes, it’s a racket - but so are all religions. And yes, the difference between a cult and a religion is size and power, nothing more.
[/quote]
Wrong. At least, not how I’m using the word. A cult exerts control over its membership far in excess of a mainstream (or even a small fringe) sect.
Wrong again. You could attend the Catholic Church for free. While donations were expected, they were never strictly necessary. If you were unable to pay your tithe, they never put you into billion year contract to continue taking the sacraments. Scientology does. At the end of the day, Catholics, like every other mainstream sect, are and always have been more interested in saving your soul than taking your money. It’s idiocy to suggest otherwise, even if you don’t believe their metaphysical and moral teachings. You can’t say that about Scientology.
Denial of medicine isn’t unique (Christian Science is particularly guilty of it, and ISTM that Hubbard cribbed a lot from Mary Baker Eddy), but Scientologists push it to the forefront.
Hardly. Unless you grew up between Osama bin Laden and Fred Phelps. Which would explain a lot about your attitudes, frankly.
Perhaps. Through getting their members elected, voting, and through lobbyists. But that’s just democracy in action. Operation Snow White was something far more sinister and dangerous.
Given the time and place that Scientology was founded in, and their relative size, I think it’s fair to single them out for specific condemnation on this point.
I notice that you skipped two of my points: That Scientology hides its metaphysics until it gets its hooks into you. And that they hide behind secular masks such as narconon. These are fairly unique and egregious offenses to Scientology.
Yes, I’d make the distinction that a cult is far more insidious in it’s tactics to ostracize its members from the world at large (or may have dangerous plans for it). I’ve always felt that cult leaders knew full well that what they were preaching to their “flock” was pure BS, or they were batshit crazy. However, most established religions, have leaders who are pure believers (if not wholly sane). The blind leading the blind so to speak. While religions and cults both have ridiculous founding beliefs and perhaps even absurd practices, I think one can differentiate between a cult and a religion based on the motives of the leaders or founders, and the fruit of their practices.
Also, Scientology doesn’t have a “God” so to speak. No higher being to answer to morally. This usually keeps other religions in check. And their allegiance to LRH is downright creepy.