Why is it ok to openly ridicule Scientologists?

[QUOTE=BobLibDem]
Ever see a Scientologist Charity Hospital? Do they bring food to the hungry? Do they shelter any poor people? Any Scientologist orphanages? Do they do any good for anyone? Does it have any redeeming feature? I don’t think so.

Mainstream religions preach codes of conduct which, if there followers would adhere to, would make the world a better place. The problem is where the followers do not practice what they preach. The same cannot be said of Scientology.
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To Tom Cruise’s credit he did save someone’s life a few years back when he was married to Nicole Kidman.

Monavis

[QUOTE=Happy Wanderer]
Because they are evil and need to be ridiculed, preferably out of existence.

Anyway, Scientology has more problems now than being ridiculed.

link

As probably the doper with the longest history of studying this and other cults (hobby) I am thinking that something big is about to happen with them. For one thing, they have gotten TOO famous. Many people have seen or heard of the South Park episode. Tom Cruise presents the cult in a very poor light, and may yet do a lot more harm if he goes completely nuts in public, which I think may happen soon. He seems to be on a downward spiral.

And when more of the public becomes aware that they are once again infiltrating the government there will be a call for sanctions. And check out the scieno-stare on Baca. Creeeeepy.

They are up against their own delusions. Their mandate is to “clear the planet” and kill anyone that doesn’t go along. The problem is, the farther they go on that path, the more society will oppose them. They function best like cockroaches, doing their business out of sight. The more evident they make themselves, the more cry there is for the exterminator. Best they keep hiding in the cracks and try to escape notice. But that is not consistent with their mandate to take over the world. This puts them on a collision course with doom if they ever start to succeed.

How can they explain to their membership that their website is being brought down on a regular basis? Where are the astral-traveling, superpower-possessing, all-knowing OTs to save the day? When the protesters show up at an org, they simply close the window blinds so the dupes can’t see the popular “If OTs existed, how can we be here?” sign. Or maybe they just explain that the server is clogged with cigarette smoke and is out for a cleaning.

But if these hackers are serious, they will be using that excuse for a while. Yes, I am rooting for the hackers.
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I saw on the news awhile back that some fundamentalists are training their children and others to be lawyers, to get involved in politics etc. so they can control and vote their beliefs in to the constitution. Bush was voted in to change the supreme court to be more conservative.

People want people to agree with them. One reason for separation of church and state is to protect the minority from the majority.

Monavis

[QUOTE=mswas]
saoirse The Christian church was a hidden cult for many years while they were illegal in Rome.
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At what point was the basic theology of the church hidden from non-believers? The early Christians didn’t save the weird stuff for people who were already too invested in the church to leave, they started with the weird stuff. And the weird stuff wasn’t even that weird at the time.

[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
Of course they do, in context with the rest of Christian mythology. After all, wouldn’t you want to be saved from Hell ? Saving people from an infinite punishment justifies ANYTHING you do to them, no matter how horrible. So, you are loving your enemies and trating them as you would want to be treated by torturing them until they confess faith in Christ, by destroying their non-Christian and therefore Hellbound cultures, by killing the heretics that might contaminate them and send them to Hell too, and so on.
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Well, any organized christian religion at this point in history would never attempt such a thing. It’s happened in the past, because they were hateful and misguided. But really, Jesus taught to spread the word peacefully, and if they declined… live and let live.

All that said, I don’t care for organized religion at all. I have no use for it, and I do think it causes problems. It marginalizes things into black and white, leaving no room for gray, which discourages anyone to think for themselves or question authority.

Anyway, we are a flawed species. Apparently some (or most?) want to believe in something. Whether they use that as a vehicle for hate and their own fucked up agenda, or actually practice it peacefully is up to them. I’ll concede that religion is a fuel for the extremists… it’s a tragedy and if there was some way to separate those from the peaceful center, then I’d be all for it.

Do you really think that faith and religion will someday be abolished?

I walk into a Scientology center, and ask about the cult/er, church. I bring up the bizarres stuff (Xenu, thetans, L Ron Hubbard’s bizarre life and claims), and laugh in their face. What would they do to me?

[QUOTE=DrDeth]
Cite that other religions are not? Certainly they are fair game here.
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Got that cite yet? :dubious:

[QUOTE=ralph124c]
I walk into a Scientology center, and ask about the cult/er, church. I bring up the bizarres stuff (Xenu, thetans, L Ron Hubbard’s bizarre life and claims), and laugh in their face. What would they do to me?
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They’d stun gun you in the crotch, steal your wallet, put you on a DC-8, full of other Wogs like you, and then crash it into a volcano. Who’s got the last laugh now?!

[QUOTE=RTFirefly]
That’s silly. ‘Cult’ has more connotations than size alone.

For instance, it’s not difficult to be a practitioner in good standing of a religion while spending most of your free time with nonbelievers. A cult would, at the very least, regard any member with great suspicion that spent most of his free time with persons outside the cult.
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Not true of every religion, or every cult.

[QUOTE=ralph124c]
I walk into a Scientology center, and ask about the cult/er, church. I bring up the bizarres stuff (Xenu, thetans, L Ron Hubbard’s bizarre life and claims), and laugh in their face. What would they do to me?
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I am not a Scientologist, nor do I play one on TV.
The other day I read a little article entitled “How to Talk to a Scientologist,” ostensibly written by someone who’d left on the topic of how to get your loved ones out. It said, in part:

The Xenu stuff isn’t introduced until the OTIII level, and L. Ron taught that learning this information before you were ready would drive you insane or kill you. From what I understand, the folks at the front desk are likely very low-level members and have not reached these teachings.

On the other hand, they are actively taught how to resist “Suppressive Persons” in courses where they scream insults and such at each other in order to develop the ability to blank out and not react in any way at all. My guess is they’d simply mentally label you an “SP” as they ignore everything you say and hustle you out the door pretty quickly.

[QUOTE=NajaNivea]
On the other hand, they are actively taught how to resist “Suppressive Persons” in courses where they scream insults and such at each other in order to develop the ability to blank out and not react in any way at all. My guess is they’d simply mentally label you an “SP” as they ignore everything you say and hustle you out the door pretty quickly.
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That explains where Tom got his training:

BBC’s Panorama: Scientology and Me

[QUOTE=cmyk]
Well, any organized christian religion at this point in history would never attempt such a thing.
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Oh, please, of course they still do it. They just aren’t as blatant, mostly because they are less unified and powerful. But, for example, the Catholic Church has killed an unknown but large number of people with it’s lies about condoms; they don’t care, because killing means nothing to people who believe in souls.

[QUOTE=cmyk]
Do you really think that faith and religion will someday be abolished?
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One way or another. Either we will eliminate it ourselves, probably via genetic engineering, or it will be eliminated because we destroy ourselves. Religion is madness, and unless we cure ourselves it’s sure to kill us as our knowledge and power grows.

[QUOTE=saoirse]
At what point was the basic theology of the church hidden from non-believers?
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Wasn’t the whole point of Gutenberg printing the Bible (as opposed to something else) so that the lay people could gain access to Christianity’s basic theology? I’m having a hard time confirming this with Wikipedia, so I’m probably wrong - but I was told some time ago that before the introduction of movable type, only the clergy could afford access to the Bible, and they exploited this level of information to their advantage.

Or something like that? :confused:

[QUOTE=Subway Prophet]
Wasn’t the whole point of Gutenberg printing the Bible (as opposed to something else) so that the lay people could gain access to Christianity’s basic theology? I’m having a hard time confirming this with Wikipedia, so I’m probably wrong - but I was told some time ago that before the introduction of movable type, only the clergy could afford access to the Bible, and they exploited this level of information to their advantage.

Or something like that? :confused:
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It’s not that they were prohibited from having it, it’s just that it was exceedingly difficult for most people to get a copy of the Bible, or any other book for that matter. Obviously there were plenty of people who really didn’t mind.

On tithing, the big difference to me is that tithing is, as I understand it, voluntary. They may suggest 10%, may even suggest it strongly, but if you don’t have it to give, they aren’t going to strong-arm you into giving it. You can still attend church services, receive counsel, and so on. You could be a parishioner your entire life and not give a cent. In most churches you can even receive assistance in various forms–food closets, clothing, sometimes rent assistance and so on.

With Scientology, you have two options. Fork over ridiculous amounts of cash, or go to work for them for years for a pittance, and if you quit before your contract runs out, you owe them tens of thousands of dollars in fees for the auditing you receive during your employ. They claim the payment system is their “tithe” but it’s certainly not voluntary by any means. In fact, in order to receive any services, you must be a “member” of the international scientological organization which I can’t recall the name of. The first six months are free, but it’s $500 annually after that. This is the service that registers you and every bit of “training” you receive. That’s $500 just to be allowed to register to receive any kind of training, which you then pay thousands of dollars for.
Hell, the auditors are required to own two E-Meters, which they pay out of pocket for. These things are built with a few parts from Radio Shack and a couple tin soup cans. CoS charges around $4200 for them and requires you purchase two… in case one breaks down, you know.

Aside from the moneymaking scam part of it, the part that cracks me up the most is that they believe that once you’ve reached the upper ranks of OT, you quite literally have superpowers–control over “Mest”: matter, energy, space, and time. You can move objects with your mind, and so on. Really? Really?!

Lastly, while most churches seem to be geared towards reaching out to the down-trodden, Scientology won’t do anything for you if you seem to have any actual problems, or are in need of any real help. It’s aimed towards making normal people “better”, not helping folks who need help.

You want to get really wigged out about Scientology, do a little sniffing around about their “Ethics” arm, and the “Office of Special Affairs”, formerly known as the “Guardian’s Office”. Those people give me the serious creeps. The rest of it is sick and cult-y and creepy, the OSA/“Ethics” is downright vicious and evil, both to “SP’s” and to members who’ve committed some perceived slight, like being “down-stat” and not bringing in enough “raw meat” marks.

There is nothing about this group that cares one iota about anything but racking in the cash. They’d be hysterical if they weren’t brainwashing so many people and sucking them dry. Their gross annual income is something like $300,000,000. That’s a good chunk of cash for a group that doesn’t provide charitable services.

I guess, to address the OP, I feel comfortable ridiculing Scientology because as others have pointed out, L. Ron Hubbard himself stated that the quickest way to become a millionaire was to start your own religion. They’re not out to save or serve, they’re out to take your money.

[QUOTE=saoirse]
And the weird stuff wasn’t even that weird at the time.
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Hell, it was LESS weird. Odd, hippyish, and a lttle boring, but read your Bullfinch if you want WEIRD.

As for tithing, I don’t even believe the shit the Lutherans are teaching my kids, but at the same time I’m sad that, in my unemployed state, I can’t donate like I did because I believe in most of the things they do with my money, which is mostly helping people.

[QUOTE=mswas]
Why is Scientology fair game but other religions are not?
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I’d have an easier time believing in the flying spaghetti monster.

Makes as much sense as ritually eating a piece of your savior’s body every week, though.

But then why are you looking for religion to make sense? If it didn’t depend on some power or something outside our complete comprehension, it wouldn’t even *be * religion.

[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves]

But then why are you looking for religion to make sense? If it didn’t depend on some power or something outside our complete comprehension, it wouldn’t even *be * religion.
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In that case would you consider economics a religion? :cool:

[QUOTE=mswas]
I don’t know why I try with you but I continue to do so. Jesus came up with a very difficult ideal, and ‘kill the heretic’ wasn’t a major component of it. How it was implemented by the people since then is a different story. As long as you don’t understand what religion is and what it does, you won’t really have a valid opinion on the subject. You think that from your modern bourgeois reality you are entitled to judge the beliefs of those who had nothing better to choose from, who were living in a much more wild law of the jungle type scenario. The Roman Empire prior to Christianity was pretty vicious, as were the German tribes, The Celts and well just about everyone. The idea of a separation of religion from the rest of everything is a relatively new concept, one that the people of the time couldn’t even conceive. So you are railing against the human condition but thinking you are fighting religion. The idea that one should act in any way other than their immediate self-interest is a religious concept. Just because you can apply it because of the relatively modern innovation that we know of as atheism, doesn’t really help describe the state of mankind in any meaningful way. It’s just a clever gloss for you to hate people without needing to really justify your emotional outrage with any sort of rational content.
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I do not have enough compliments in my vocabulary to express my admiration for this passage. Well done, mswas!

Lapsed as my own religious convictions may be, I grow increasingly nauseated by the vitriol launched upon anyone in history who has ever embraced the concept of a higher power. It is undeniably true that millions of people have, throughout the ages, been persecuted, tormented, tortured and slaughtered in the name of x or y religion. It is equally true, however, that millions of people have, throughout the ages, been persecuted, tormented, tortured and slaughtered due to the fact that they a) were related to the wrong person; b) had sworn allegiance to the wrong monarch; c) possessed some contentious piece of property; d) had chosen to defend their homes, possessions, ways of life, etc. from an invading force; or e) just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

In short, people, given full license to act as they will, tend to be cruel to one another. To label religion as the guilty party is to fall into the same trap as those who would blame economics, social class, politics, ancestry or any other abstract concept for the failure of humanity to embrace the Utopian ideal. At best it’s an uninformed and hopelessly simplistic view of history. At worst, it’s the sort of thinking that leads to exactly the same kind of atrocity that is (on the surface) being condemned. “All religions are evil and should be abolished” is not very far removed from “all religious persons should be locked up or shot.”

[QUOTE=tomndebb]
What other religions are not fair game for ridicule?
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Well, there are social (though not legal) consequences to slandering Judaism; post-Holocaust, few sane people want the “antisemite” label hung around their necks. Mocking the Virgin Mary can get your ass kicked in many parts of the country. Ditto Mother Theresa and Joan of Arc. Salman Rushdie can tell you better than I about Islam’s ability to laugh at itself. So yeah, I’d have to say that most major religions are less fair game for ridicule than the Scientologists.

Exceptions include the Unification Church and the Branch Davidians.