Richard Thompson agrees with Pat Matheney (Warning 3MB .MP3 file, but worth it)
Kenny G earned my undying hatred when my roommate decided to fall in love while I was working 3rd shift. There’s nothing quite like waking up at 10 pm to the sound of weasel-like rutting and elevator music. Yep, nothing like it at all.
If it hadn’t been for that, I would merely have been bored by his music and curious why people listen to it. I mean, sure, smoothness is fine, but if you want something that won’t challenge your musical sensibilities and/or be loud, turn on a fan or something, for crying out loud.
You, sir, are a freakin’ Genius!
The answer to this, and at least a few other trivial things, can be found in South Park:
ahem
“OMIGOD! They killed Kenny! Bastards!”
Except, for Mr. G, they might leave off the last bit,
Well, here are some that are a little less mainstream, to say the least
1986 Pat Metheny, Ornette Coleman (PM:leader) Song X
1988 Metheny/ Brubeck/King (PM:sideman) The sound of jazz
1990 Jack DeJohnette (PM:sideman) Parallel Realities
1990 Pat Metheny, Dave Holland, Roy Haynes (PM:leader) Question & Answer
1996 Tony Williams (PM:sideman) Wilderness
These offer a different view of why Metheny is considered a jazz guitar great.
[Pat Metheny hijack]I’ve always been in the “jazz without the vital influence of heroin fever-dreams is crap” camp, and as such, I assiduously avoided Metheny, Kenny G, etc (and even folks like Dave Brubeck.) I recently caught a replay of an old Pat Metheny concert on my local public television station, and I must say I was fascinated. While I still despise the pure, blank soullessness of his music, the man can play guitar. He’s remarkably skilled.
His music is still a white void of nothing, however. It is precisely played, skillfully executed, and utterly forgettable after 15 minutes. I have a vague recollection of nearly psychedelic guitar runs, some contrapuntal work, and a million three-octave slides, but I don’t remember any unifying themes, any structure, or any real melody. It was like a long post-modern version of a college jam band. Lots of wanking with no payoff.[/PMh]
What about other modern “melodic jazz” sax players such as David Sanborn, Eric Marienthal and Gerald Albright? They aren’t derided at all. Sure, they’re more skilled that the G-man, but still…
i dont know about you but i have plenty of clarinet friends that are green with envy because they can’t circular breath like K.G. can - he can hold a note for 45 minutes straight, i believe.
okay, im just kidding about the clarineter part
Or maybe it’s because he makes me want to gouge out my cochleas with a fork.
I don’t care that much that he’s successful, except that it means that I have to be subjected to his sonic feces-hurling more often than I would if he were just some schmuck playing on a street corner.
But then again, I seriously can’t tolerate any “soothing” music. I listen to it for stimulation, not sedation.
I don’t give a rat’s hairy ass about Kenny G, Kenny Loggins, or Kenny McCormick. I simply want to comment on a view some posters to this thread seem to share: `It’s trendy to hate him ‘cause we like him.’
Where does it come from? Do you people really think that everyone who gets sick of pop culture is an effete snob who has nothing better to do than sit around thinking of what Joe and Jane Sixpack enjoy, so he can deride it? Do you think we’re all so obsessed with our own `status’ that we’ll gleefully castigate any member of the herd we consider weak to gain in rank? Do you think we’re all losers?
I read Kafka. I enjoy Charlie Parker. I read Freud and Jung. I get excited over one of Philip K. Dick’s novels being made into a movie (A Scanner Darkly, this time), although they always manage to fuck them up. And yes, I get sick of the junk that seems to play well in Peoria' or is popular with the kids’. Why? Because it’s being shoved down my throat every time I turn on the TV or switch the dial of my radio. I can’t go to the movies without having to sit through another preview for another `guaranteed billion-seller’ with no discernible distinctions from the last three or the next twelve.
I don’t care what you like any more than you care what I like. I think it’s important you understand that about me, because I think it’s true of a lot of people. I’m just sick and tired of what you like being shoved down my throat.
I have a rather dislike for him, and a lot of the music you hear on the radio now, simply because I enjoy music that I find thought provoking, beautiful, or that has a lot of emotion in it.
Stuff like Kenny G puts out, while pleasing to the ear in that not-bad-but-not-good-either sense, comes across to me as quite dull and lifeless. I don’t like it simply because it is so hard to actually form an opinion on. It seems like something you would listen to when you are doing something else , just to keep it from distracting you. Something you’d listen to while reading a book, but just as background noise.
It’s like music for the non-enthusiast.
Kind of like how the Toyota Camry is for the cars-as-appliance crowd.
Working guitarist here - not a jazz player, but a big jazz listener and fan.
Hodge - knew Metheny hated KG, but hadn’t read that - hilarious
astorian - I like lots of your posts, but you are off base here - 2 reasons: 1) PM’s comments are his opinion - he happens to be right, IMHO and KG should be punished for the temerity of recording over Satchmo - but arguing that PM is just as bad is an ad hominem response that doesn’t counter the point of PM’s quote - you simply attack PM; and 2) Metheny has done smoother stuff, but he does do trad jazz, is technically sound and is generally highly respected in the jazz community.
ddgryphon - if he was wine, he’d be $3 white zinfandel.
Bottom line - if he was a pop musician, he’d be, oh, O-Town or 98 degrees - in other words, bad boy band pop, but not even top tier bad boy band pop. He may have some musical talent (and the boy banders can often sing well) but every ounce of credibility has be prostituted out of them…
When someone so clearly has sold out and gone to the dark side, they present themselves as an easy target. Recording over Armstrong is the equivalent of putting a cheesy Kincade landscape in the background of a Monet and then demanding $100 million for it. How can you not hate a hack who arrogantly inserts himself into the ranks of the immortals? Why doesn’t the idiot just recarve Lincoln’s face on Mt. Rushmore to look like his - it’s the same act of defilement…
Oh, no, no! I’m sure there are plenty of unpopular, unsuccesful crap musicians that I would despise just as much as Mr. G. It’s just that they didn’t have as good a marketing or PR machine, so they remain in obscurity. And rightfully so!
And there is plenty of mainstream stuff that I do enjoy, such as the Spice Girls, Michael Chriton & Tom Clancy novels, Swanson TV dinners…
This is very much what I was going to say. It’s noise and that’s it. It is enough sound that you can’t really ignore it, but there is nothing in it to ilicit any emotion. The same goes for Tesh and Yanni for the most part. Ever seen Tesh play? He’s up there sweating, blond hair flying around as he pounding away furiously on those keyboards, but beyond the spectacle he’s putting on there is emptyness. He’s working so hard, but his music is just kinda there.
I do not find this stuff soothing in the least. If I want soothing, I’ll put on one of my Nat King Cole records or maybe some Vivaldi.
We have some jazz enthusiasts here.
So recommend some jazz to me. I have an open mind, but I’m not sure what I’d like. I will go out on a limb and say that I have heard Dave Brubeck do “Take Five”. I liked that. I don’t know that I’ve heard Kenny G.
Now if that is something that doesn’t qualify as true jazz, please don’t flame me for having no taste in jazz. That style of jazz, mostly instrumental, not a lot of singing (I know Satchmo sang, but I like his music more than his singing…) is what I think I like.
If somebody could recommend some cornerstone albums…not just “Miles Davis”, but a specific Davis album…of a few of the greats of the different genre’s of jazz, I think it would be fun to pick a few up and have a go at jazz.
Thanks as always.
This pretty much sums up my feelings. The concept of “soul” is impossibly to explain, but it’s obvious to all that Kenny G lacks it. He reminds me of Mariah Carey, who has incredible talent, but will be smiling while singing a heartbreaking song. You’ve got to really feel something (joy, pain, frustration, injustice, love, etc.) to make any art worthwhile.
“Soothing” cracks me up, because the few times my coworker has played the smooth jazz station in my office, I’ve been driven to murderous rage and headaches. But I’m a traditionalist Coltrane/Bird/Miles/Monk/Mingus/Blakey jazz fan. It seems worse because it’s based on a musical form you love, but it’s corrupted and soulless. Playing something I completely despise (like house music) would almost be better.
Have smooth jazz and the G-Man ruined the sound of the soprano sax forever?
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Sound–his is awful, nasal, thin, stretched, etc. Sound is the first thing you hear, it had better be good.
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Originality–none. Seems like he plays the same thing several thousand times. Needs to stand on Armstrong’s shoulders to get anywhere. Basically, there is no reason to listen to it–after hearing it, there is nothing I have that I don’t have before hearing it.
Duke of Rat, try pretty much anything that’s been mentioned besides Kenny G. I remember seeing Armstrong, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, Oscar Peterson, Charles Mingus–also perhaps Gil Evans or Buddy Rich.
In fairness to Kenny G, though, I think pretty much everyone knows the deal by now. He doesn’t seem to even be on the radar of most people I know. I still object to hearing it in the supermarket, though.
I liked him when I was in high school. Mind you, at the time, I was all of fourteen and still liked freaking Mariah Carey.
I’ve since moved on. Kenny G isn’t bad, but he isn’t good. He just…is. He’s just there and he’s tepid. Bland.
The reason he ‘sucks’ goes way beyond how one may or may not asses his playing ability, chops, etc…, as well as ‘jealousy of his massive sales’:
1- Kenny G’s music can be best described as ‘Instrumental Pop’, yet, neither him or his marketing department mind when he’s presented as such i.e ’ smooth Jazz’ player - a gross mischaracterization, which greatly misinforms audiences who don’t know better, in detriment of authentic Jazz musicians - Kenny G’s music is not a good example of what Jazz music is by a long shot.
2 - It is my opinion that in recent times - the last 15 yrs or so - this ‘hatred’ towards his music is again, caused not so much because of his musical output or ability - which by the way has been in the same formulaic, unchallenging, harmonically superficial vein since its inception, but because some 15 yrs or so ago KG in a tasteless move, had the nerve of releasing an album featuring his overdubbed saxophone on top of the great late Louis Armstrong’s music. That move showed incredible arrogance and pretentiousness on his part - not only because of its musical necrophiliac character, but also because it means he’s assuming that if Armstrong were alive, Louis would consider playing a duet with him. At best KG when contemplating the possibility if a duet between himself and one of the fathers of Jazz could ever take place, should have had the humility and be honest enough to answer himself: " I guess I can never be sure if Louis were alive, he would ever considering playing, let alone rerecording one of his classics with me…so I better leave it alone". KG not only showed he lacks humility and honesty, but showed that to him, it’s not a problem to defile great timeless music, if that guarantees him good album sales.
That’s why “Kenny G sucks. Big time”.
I meant to write : " I guess I will never be sure if, were Louis alive, he would he ever consider playing…"