We have an appointment at the vet this Friday but I would like to see if we can figure out what is going on before then.
I have a 10 month old french bulldog who is the most adorable dog in the whole world. She has one quirk that I can’t figure out though. She seems to really like going to the bathroom in her sleeping area despite the fact that every trainer and website I’ve ever seen has said that dogs naturally avoid sleeping and pottying in the same area. We tried to crate train her and she constantly pooped and peed in her crate. It got to the point where she would have to go to the bathroom and instead of going to her mat or standing at the door she would run into her crate to potty. She also loves to take her toys and run to her potty mats and lay down there to chew on them.
We stopped crating her regularly and instead put up a gate so she has run of about half of the apartment. This works beautifully and she hasn’t gone to the bathroom in an inappropriate place in several months until about a week ago when she started the weirdest bedtime ritual I’ve ever seen. She pees and poops before bed like normal and then when we put her in her dog bed at night (a laundry basket with her bed and a blanket inside that sits next to our bed) she digs around in the bedding for a minute and then pees. It is only ever 4 or 5 drops and she seems really pleased with herself afterwards and happy to sleep in her mess, almost like she is marking her bed for some reason. It isn’t even like she is being forced into her dog bed against her will or otherwise angry with her bed because she runs there to sleep at night of her own accord. Every time she does this we make her get out while we change it out with clean bedding and she goes to sleep just fine but I cannot for the life of me figure out why she is doing this. What gives?
I see questions about stuff like that all the time on dog forums. And yes, most experts deny it happens. I have had a couple of puppies urinate on the bean bag chair we allow them on. It isn’t an accident, they went to it. I do feel it is a form of marking. While a vet check is always good, I doubt in this case he will turn up anything.
I think some of fouling of crates is a matter of stress. Dogs often have a bowel movement in times of stress. Being left alone is stressful for a puppy. It isn’t the natural order for them. I think it is more of a problem with puppies left with their litter to 12 weeks when they no longer accept new things as well.
What was her life prior to you acquiring her? Many puppymill dogs by neccesity learn to eliminate where they sleep, since they are confined to a crate at all times.
As far as we are aware she came from a breeder in Minnesota. We are in NYC so we adopted her from a place that advertised that they didn’t support puppy mills and all of their pups came from breeders. We never actually saw the breeder she came from but we did contact the breeder and review their information online and they seemed to be legitimate as far as we could tell. I suppose she could have come from a puppy mill since we never physically met the breeder but she had been given really excellent health care and we were given full vet records and papers and all of that stuff when we adopted her so I can’t imagine that she came from a mill.
Hmmph. A lot of puppymills and iffy breeders and puppy brokers (almost surely your pup came from one of the former - NO legitimate or ethical breeder is going to broker their puppies) know enough to say things on their websites that make them look legit. Like “we are not a puppy mill, oh noes.” And many of them use the term “adopt” instead of “buy” because it’s more politically correct. :rolleyes:
First thing I thought of was a puppymill dog, actually. Second thing (wouldn’t hurt to rule it out) is get her checked for a UTI…not uncommon, especially in bitches, especially in bitches spayed your (which is why it’s sometimes refered to as “spay incontinence”.) Glad you’re taking her in for a check up!
And squeeee…Frenchies. I fostered a one-eyed Frenchie for a while. OMG, cute and charisma up the wazoo. I have decided a Frenchie will probably be my old-lady dog!
What’s the deal with using pads at 10 mo? I realize that living in an apartment, it’s a pain to get the dog outdoors when it’s time to eliminate…but using pads is essentially telling the pup it’s ok to eliminate inside. Which it’s not.
I would suggest getting rid of the pads and adding more regular trips outside to potty, on a schedule. Do you make her go outside as soon as she’s done eating in the morning and the evening?
I agree that it’s time to pick up the puppy pads. As for her own bed … does she have new blankets that you bought for her or are you using old sheets or tshirts or something? Maybe toss a few old items of yours in there, too, so it smells like her family, and she won’t feel a need for this.
You might try letting her sleep in your bed. If she’s marking for scent, sleeping with you might prevent that.
Aside from all that, ask your vet about submissive urination. It’s something dogs do when they’re feeling anxious but it can also happen when they’re over excited. It’s more common in females and more common in puppies. Often they outgrow it. Maybe going into her bed makes her anxious in some way, even if she’s tired. Can she get out of it on her own?
Doesn’t sound like a UTI or spay incontinence to me. it sounds deliberate, just like I have seen a few times myself and have read about. Spay incontinence usually comes later and urine seeps out while the dog is asleep. An occasional hormone capsule is all the dog needs.
It could be that sometime she was confined for a while and forced to foul her quarters.
Picking up the pads is not an option at this point. Frenchies have smooshy faces which means they can’t pant like a dog with a longer muzzle and don’t have the ability to cool themselves very well. Since this has been an incredibly hot summer here she can’t really go out except at 6 in the morning and 10 at night. We do take her out at those times but I can’t expect her to hold it for 15 hours a day so she does need the mats. Beyond that I’m 6 months pregnant so not only am I really effected by the heat as well but here in a couple of months I’m not going to wake up the baby, put her in the stroller, put the leash on the dog and go up and down several flights of stairs 5 or 6 times a day on 40 minutes of sleep. The dog is going to be walked twice a day and otherwise use pee mats until the baby gets old enough that leaving the house several times a day won’t be problematic for her. I do wish we had a back yard so I could just open the door and let her go outside for a few minutes but that isn’t an option here unfortunately.
I’ve not considered the concept of submissive urination but that could be a possibility. I will ask the vet about that at her appointment on Friday. It could also be that she was confined in some way before we adopted her and just learned that fouling her sleeping quarters was normal so it may take a long time and additional work with a trainer to break her of that if it is the case.
Incontinence can take many forms…one dog I had with chronic incontinence issues simply peed a lot, in little drips and puddles…she simply couldn’t hold it. The “hormone capsule” you’re talking about is Proin; my dog was on it and it did the trick. I’ve dealt with quite a few UTIs over the years, only one dog dribbled in his sleep. Mostly they just pee a lot, and there’s often blood in the urine - undetectable unless the dog pees on snow.
But sure, it could well be a behavioural or odd marking issue…however the OP is correct in ruling out medical reasons first.
Doesn’t sound like submissive or excitement peeing, for sure. Since the dog does it on the bed when settling down, instead of the typical scenario - owners come home, meeting new people or new dogs, etc.
Sounds to me like the poor dog has been confined for too long at a stretch in the crate and has learned that she has to pee in there. If her crate is all clean, it doesn’t smell right to her, so she marks it. You’ve trained her to lie in her own filth. If she’s a 10-month old puppy, she needs to go out – minimum – every four hours.
I had two Bostons in Florida heat. They can go outside at times of day other than 6 am and 10 pm. You just can’t leave 'em outside for 20 minutes. But you* can* take a brachycephalic dog outside for 5 minutes in the heat of the day, just to empty its little bladder. I recommend ice cube treats when you come back inside; helps cool the doggy right back down.
Take an umbrella out with you and shade the dog. Puppies need to go outside so frequently that my rule is “if at any point I’m comfortable, get up again and take the dog out.” I’d take one with this problem outside at least once an hour, if at all possible, at least while trying to change the behavior.
She’s never been crated for more than 3-4 hours at a time (and hasn’t been crated at all in 4 months or so) which is why this is so weird to us. It isn’t like she has been left in a crate while we were at work or anything like that. When we stopped crating her at all she peed outside or on her mats exclusively with no problem until earlier this week. I will grant you that until early June my husband was not working and she got taken out 4 or 5 times a day so she might be reacting to going out a lot less often or spending more time alone with just the cats and a radio to keep her company.
I took her out yesterday at 6 pm when I got home to see if she needed to go to the bathroom. We walked around the block and she was already overheating despite the fact that she is very young and fit so I took her back inside even though she hadn’t gone to the bathroom in the 10 minutes we were outside. This has been the coolest it has been in weeks as well so I can’t imagine how bad it would have been for her last week when it was 102 degrees every day especially since we don’t have access to shady, grassy areas. Everywhere she goes is pretty much concrete which makes the heat that much worse. I’ll keep the umbrella suggestion in mind for the future though and see if that helps keep her a little cooler.
Last night I sprayed down everything within a foot of her dog bed with nature’s miracle and wiped everything clean. She slept in her bed just fine without peeing until her normal morning walk so I’m hoping that is a sign that this is getting better but only time and the trip to the vet will tell.
She may have her bed marked and not need to do more. As for the crate thing, What you saw, may have been the results over long confinement before you got her.
When I take my dogs out in hot weather, I wet them down. A dip in a pond is best, but if you have to, a hose.
Hmmm, I got the impression she had been crated all day while you were at work. In that case ('cause a Frenchie is just a Boston with an accent ;)), then that is weird.
Again, feeding ice cubes is a good way to cool her off post-walk. If the pond or hose water is too warm, just pop her in the bathtub for a cooling soak.
Also, Nature’s Miracle is crap. I never had much success with it. I use plain old white vinegar, which seems to neutralize the ammonia in the urine nicely. Works awesome with cat pee, but also worked great with my dogs.
I think I’d start over with the pottytraining and skip both the crate and the pee pads altogether. If she’s having “accidents” then she’s really not housebroken. For some reason, bully breeds seem to be tough to train.
White vinegar is awesome for getting rid of pet stains and odor. Seriously, it works. I do about 50:50 with water.
Fast cool-off for a hot dog: carry a spray bottle with cold (even partially frozen) water and spritz the belly and insides of thighs. Very quick way to cool a dog down.
I don’t have brachycephalic dogs, but have owned Rottweilers for over 25 years; also a very heat-intolerant breed. Your frog dogcan easily tolerate 10-15 minutes in the humid heat, enough to pee and poop. There’s also products like cooling coats for dogs (google it) which can help a great deal.
On the flip side - one of my dogs is small, with short hair and about zero body fat. She is not built for cold weather at all, but I live in Michigan and we manage winters. She has several coats, and since I don’t personally want to do the indoor pad thing, she has to suck it up and has learned to “speed-potty” outside when it’s like ten below.
Well after some very close monitoring last night I think I am putting my money on spay incontinence. I’ll see what the vet says but twice after laying on the couch she got up and left a small spot of urine behind. She doesn’t seem to be in any pain and doesn’t mind me touching her back end so I’m doubting it is an infection but it could be that as well so I will have the vet give her a thorough checkup.
It is only ever 4 or 5 drops and she seems really pleased with herself afterwards and happy to sleep in her mess, almost like she is marking her bed for some reason. It isn’t even like she is being forced into her dog bed against her will or otherwise angry with her bed because she runs there to sleep at night of her own accord. Every time she does this we make her get out while we change it out with clean bedding and she goes to sleep just fine but I cannot for the life of me figure out why she is doing this. What gives?