First, I know that ethnic slurs should be a thing of the past. I’m not some clueless ditz who can’t understand why people of color can use a certain word that rhymes with trigger, and I can’t.
But I don’t understand why “oriental” is now frowned on.
The word oriental was never to my knowledge used in a derogatory fashion. There were other harsher words to express contempt for those of Asian descent.
As far as I can tell, it’s because it’s an older term that lumps all Asians together. It doesn’t distinguish Chinese from Japanese from Vietnamese from Kazakhs.
Well, fine. But neither does the term “Asians”. And that’s still okay to use.
Great! I could someday be an “occidental tourist”.
ETA: Others here may have a more complete answer. In the meantime ISTR that it has something to do about other things than humans included by the adjective/noun. A partial answer anyway, maybe?
From what I was told years ago by an Asian friend, the word “Oriental” is used to describe objects, like an Oriental rug…not people. By using the term Oriental, it can be seen as objectification.
My wife, descended from Asians, hates the term and for basically the same reason as Chrissy Teigen – she doesn’t want to be described by the same term used to describe a rug. I’m sure I could call her “nice” or “warm,” which are also terms I might use to describe a rug, but those would bring no offense. So perhaps the logic isn’t perfectly rational but it’s consistent. It’s also not too much for me to learn and accommodate, like leaving the toilet seat down.
I don’t think my wife would care about the term “oriental dressing” at all. It’s fine with her to describe things with the term.
Other people might have different reasons to take offense. As you note, some people don’t like being grouped together with all Asians. They might not like the idea of thoughtlessly lumping together 30 or 40% of the world’s people, hailing from hundreds of distinct cultures, together with one label. This doesn’t bother my wife at all – she views herself, Chinese, Vietnamese, Koreans, Indians, Pakistanis, Kazakhs, etc. as equally Asian and she uses the term all the time.
Some people who are interrogating Chrissy Teigen on Twitter about why she finds the term offensive are probably only willing to avoid the term if Chrissy comes up with an answer that satisfies them. Here’s the thing – I don’t need to fully understand why someone else might be offended by a term; I will avoid the offensive term simply because it hurts their feelings. It costs me nothing to accommodate them. I can’t understand people who can’t give their neighbors and acquaintances this tiny consideration.
I’ve never figured this out either. The best I can understand is that ‘Oriental’ has something of a more quaint, 1800s, exotic, Fu Manchu sort of vibe to it.
I never knew about all this until I learned it here, though it’s been a few years now. I can’t remember when or even why I started using the term Asian. In my mind’s eye “The Orient” referred to the far east. I knew India was part of Asia but I just called those folks Indian. Ditto Pakistan, Nepal, etc. Not sure I get why it’s okay to call an object Oriental yet it’s not okay to refer to people that way. Isn’t the point that it’s wrong to classify the *area *by the term? Mind, I’ll do my best to use whatever word is considered polite. I just never heard about it until I heard it here.
It’s not offensive so much as dated in the way that “negro” or “colored” are. If you wish to cause offense, there are worse words to use. And others can roll their eyes at you.
Reading the article, it looks like she has the same view. And Twitter isn’t news.
That story seems to be about a salad dressing being labeled as “Oriental” which is an object, like a rug. Nobody was calling whomever that person is “Oriental”
See, long ago as a kid I read the books of the 1920s-30s adventurer Richard Halliburton, especially his Book of Marvels, which was a tour of the world’s coolest shit divided into two parts, the Occident and the Orient.
I agree with Tired and Cranky. I don’t use “Oriental” to describe those from the eastern half of the globe, seeing as most of my friends object.
But I have no problem being lumped in with the Africans and the Europeans and the other Americans as an “Occidental.” I think it’s kinda cool in a retro way. Like zeppelins and bathyspheres.
Plus it’s sort of a circular argument in that a lot of people did used to be called that. There’s Italian people and Italian dressing and neither is offensive. If Italian did become offensive for a person, “it makes me feel like an object” would not suddenly become a reason why it was initially offensive.
I’m not making an argument for what should be offensive: clearly people are offended at it, albeit mildly, and there is a perfectly serviceable alternative available that no one objects to except those who deem it insufficiently specific.
This. Its like using the word “colored” to mean African American. Using “colored” used to be the height of good manners, but times and the connotations of words change.
(Its a little strange watching “persons of color” come into the lexicon when colored is so archaic).
“Jesus loves the little children
All the children of the world
Red, brown, yellow
Black and white
They are precious in His sight.
Jesus loves the little children
Of the world.”
We had another discussion on the SDMB a while ago: Why is it that “black” and “white” are OK to use in society, but calling someone “red” or “yellow” or “brown” is not? In every case, it’s a direct reference to someone’s skin color.